From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: fido-vertical bindings Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 16:27:21 +0100 Message-ID: References: <20210817000745.cpnevwj7anmarue2.ref@Ergus> <20210817000745.cpnevwj7anmarue2@Ergus> <87czqcw9x6.fsf@gmail.com> <20210818122558.cqhspwxrk3fmix4r@Ergus> <20210820022125.wfq6rluuxe5afofu@Ergus> <87zgtcqw32.fsf@gmail.com> <20210820114640.uee6me5pk3ydopek@Ergus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007849ad05c9ff4ee5" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20977"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel To: Ergus Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 20 17:28:15 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mH6RJ-0005G3-Uw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 17:28:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45936 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mH6RI-0004Ar-UY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 11:28:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50654) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mH6Qj-0003V2-Tz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 11:27:37 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pj1-x1036.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::1036]:33781) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mH6Qi-0002kH-6I for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 11:27:37 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pj1-x1036.google.com with SMTP id 28-20020a17090a031cb0290178dcd8a4d1so9484604pje.0 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 08:27:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=yPOv3ZrhlTD1LaqJeceL0KwnIfeLILgnyzM6iK+95lk=; b=fraz/zVtZkcTKzJ6Fhxdl8EUuzZQ94Jm4OWruVRbQHbuh/+NBbplIM1Iziy3BnHikv om3H7DKM1TKku3CygfUH5/iH0q4YuW9ik8eZQ/ieLn5T1MKS+qTtcTLxzpANL8PuIPEr WGnEpQZb26KBlsm22CKK4jgzLOGSo0rumsgMchF2HQZeIQpIZJgSCS6y+LARxqpaRG53 94228ISBstCuEP3zjmEu94lh+G2xz0Q/kp5AzzspuYpDiS2so2fffMoKMy1NDAWlJatZ G1/CRyxe1acJRZT0w/W1JcC55gRyxfnT+jWOhmz15Vyrok1mXQmZDg2Sb9HFARRnCJrS 6AFw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=yPOv3ZrhlTD1LaqJeceL0KwnIfeLILgnyzM6iK+95lk=; b=g6c8djniGB2B7ZUOsMmaoNNipzxRQg87j/1IEOlnA3nX7VY0EUF/F1frdCHJmvXOLV JWBZT9jqDcqKj/+9ddcjEcp9zsg+7CQ+YEB/OKGB5QdiDm+UP1lmxBud0tDjn4mozPlU kHClDij+d9qe4Rcm+fVQ4d+9QTAc6KBrBNDq8BqgpMNh3JroS7wyr5zrZEtQ5we9+ywe zaPczybP86KKYJCtvwWiXqWkeXlluxdKC+UE8QFPouG790z2wxOLzJGzSqv3Qr20HPko ijfGOWQs0zpsV2EojpeLBVzXO6ZEVHSQB13RSNFgVwLU62gCbr6tLyT3imBhUBckoplJ BjiQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5308vyEtNQhxcKnSzjPVozz9CQgDgvN+hnC12biGizGrxEwOUkjJ +NYoGb1UKv9OpjloKhy4z19iOT0tTuLa33woCAY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwEd0UQe5wr5ltF4Ny9M9kt2R7vmzs8AuMq3YwaSPJAkos/GLdQLm7n/vni4pJaieFiz/sXsFMyvB7MVmb53D4= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:c40e:b029:12c:cbce:2d18 with SMTP id k14-20020a170902c40eb029012ccbce2d18mr16870618plk.60.1629473253898; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 08:27:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20210820114640.uee6me5pk3ydopek@Ergus> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::1036; envelope-from=joaotavora@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-x1036.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:272725 Archived-At: --0000000000007849ad05c9ff4ee5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 12:47 Ergus wrote: >No-one ever made it a customized variable. I dislike too many customize > >variables, > That's the emacs way ;) > No, it's the custom.el way, which is a part of emacs, and which many users like. Many others don't. >but I don't oppose this one. > > > But if a variable can be safely changed by the user, then it must be a > custom, No. Not necessarily. There is, to the best of my understanding, no such orthodoxy in Emacs. Maybe some other maintainer can correct me. otherwise the variable is intended for internal use > right? So the "good" users assume they shouldn't touch it. > No. The emacs user manual prescribes other ways to change variables, on occasion. There is no such orthodoxy. Putting -- in a variable's prefix is the way to mark it as intended for internal use. This is why the initial attempt implementation I did for > icomplete-vertical used to check if there were newlines in > icomplete-separator; to respect somehow the user preferences and not add > new customs. > In my experience, that kind of complexity to try to achieve custom.el purity is always unwarranted. >Users can set non-customizable variables > But are harder to discover. The defcustom infrastructure and the customize-* functions help us, > There are many means to discover variables and user visible structures. That has been discussed at length here recently, so I won't repeat that discussion. Jo=C3=A3o > --0000000000007849ad05c9ff4ee5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 12:47 Ergus <spacibba@aol.com> wrote:

>No-one ever made it a customized variable.=C2=A0 I dislike too many cus= tomize
>variables,
That's the emacs way ;)
<= br>
No, it's the custom.el way, which is a part = of emacs, and which many users like. Many others don't.

>but I don't oppose this one.
>
But if a variable can be safely changed by the user, then it must be a
custom,

No. Not necessarily. There is, to the best of my understanding, no such = orthodoxy in Emacs. Maybe some other maintainer can correct me.

otherwise the variable is intended for internal use=
right? So the "good" users assume they shouldn't touch it.

No.= The emacs user manual prescribes other ways to change variables, on occasi= on. There is no such orthodoxy. Putting -- in a variable's prefix is th= e way to mark it as intended for internal use.

<= /div>
This is why the initial attempt implementation I did for
icomplete-vertical used to check if there were newlines in
icomplete-separator; to respect somehow the user preferences and not add new customs.

In my experience, that kind of complexity to try to achieve cus= tom.el purity is always unwarranted.

>Users can set non-customizable variables
But are harder to discover. The defcustom infrastructure and the
customize-* functions help us,=C2=A0

There are many means to discover vari= ables and user visible structures. That has been discussed at length here r= ecently, so I won't repeat that discussion.

=
Jo=C3=A3o
--0000000000007849ad05c9ff4ee5--