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WAS: Re: Making Emacs more friendly to newcomers Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2020 20:38:35 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87mu78huhx.fsf_-_@yahoo.com> <87k12bdgx7.fsf@yahoo.com> <87r1wi7a8o.fsf@yahoo.com> <875zdteybt.fsf@runbox.com> <87368wrvf5.fsf@yahoo.com> <86k126d83n.wl-me@enzu.ru> <83pnbyckvv.fsf@gnu.org> <4923d7e98f5ed816a7569093dbc673153adcea88.camel@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000085467605a7fc573b" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="21657"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Emacs developers , Stefan Kangas , Konstantin Kharlamov To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 13 21:39:32 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jkC03-0005XW-UV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 13 Jun 2020 21:39:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57570 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jkC03-0003sJ-0l for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 13 Jun 2020 15:39:31 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35194) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jkBzW-0003S0-Uo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jun 2020 15:38:58 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-io1-xd44.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::d44]:36989) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jkBzV-0006jo-7c; Sat, 13 Jun 2020 15:38:58 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-io1-xd44.google.com with SMTP id r2so13831096ioo.4; Sat, 13 Jun 2020 12:38:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=l2BshouSBIBAarsIr1A6vImY2z/yLRVEvcizlf9t200=; b=PqG3qqVxRIfQEX/iinR3ybNESYWNJExMrPC8XOGXQ6wc2PE+4x9pijg1cvcfzSqpTH LT8PoQnnIkDHAD7sRSR00BwwdNyX5FA4leG9jo1aSN8Jt+6+8qqlsbOebQ3nSrk8rJdU cz8g7f/En+v2l6Pw2pU60uifgRPtU5ZgbgCMz1iuCE9EIaOLNJwgoZHiso/hUu04cWkA M2rUJqZtzNZ5kvjpoTgdsKaADE+kzDMlQPLdqTayPG5BzwoIeFnE2R5jTtiEsthh8NIy /MV0GySltaTmzKxLJxEv3dgHQFSfIak9dcBDO1buss+MnjiNAmDt7PK4y1djXLprVFkt Wdlg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=l2BshouSBIBAarsIr1A6vImY2z/yLRVEvcizlf9t200=; b=Qc4R1GqYn+M5Lcpj+fIR4itcEXZ1Scxs+6RiNWhCThRBmEazNN2RX8NhW9dqYuiPZC ydtCYGdbqwe5qWo0n+atawGG9l4xM8kBa3bw34dR5djWuRY06JhTD17W4VhHFujxKg8q g4qZF8oYWcIztHbuRJUFpPbG/Gp7un4JGbMKY3V3TXIGcMxOgGf05MPU/Y8U6Ck9olRu X8WlIxD6ga8O48xX6FyrS8JWF3Axod49MDWCtsWHlC8vnRRhAcYNv5jl1506azfqpRT3 8lvomV4T2lxGsLGYBbPxdSirPRHKOWnTP6H9RuuejChmom60QIjhWWtSHlKacp6W9lM3 9ENQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530Z4SGqtmtI+P8rEDPC4+3QvrPaC4kkn6JJJP56Z0ADBLe5pdEF Mh4LeK2OQW//Qq4escpF52YlGZP8kWqq/S2/Ef4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzZ8YdlifhHBC41j29pJ/fb2906W7OKFabfTtoIdkp+05nHgYObwVURRrYS7PEBmwnEQc5u2qbSHcxQxsDIqPo= X-Received: by 2002:a02:b697:: with SMTP id i23mr13456544jam.78.1592077125501; Sat, 13 Jun 2020 12:38:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::d44; envelope-from=joaotavora@gmail.com; helo=mail-io1-xd44.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:252203 Archived-At: --00000000000085467605a7fc573b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 15:36 Dmitry Gutov wrote: > On 13.06.2020 14:59, Konstantin Kharlamov wrote: > > no other projects require > > writing down a list of functions I changed just for the fun of it > > As a reviewer, there's something to be said about having an overview of > the whole diff (which can get long) in a few paragraphs on top of the > patch. A good commit message like that actually makes a lot of things > clear in advance. > +1. I even use this for my own projects or projects where it's not required. Producing that list is a last self-reviewing step that summarizes _how_ the change was implemented. The diff itself is the ultimate source, but a summary is it very welcome. Of course most good commit messages don't stop there, they also explain the _why_. In general, Konstantin. I think your "for fun" exemplifies how you and many others think of these procedures as spurious, or gratuitous. But they're not, they exist because she people, whom you may disagree with, find them useful. Jo=C3=A3o Jo=C3=A3o > --00000000000085467605a7fc573b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 15:36 Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> wrote:
On 13.06.2020 14:59, Konstantin Kharlamov wrote:
> no other projects require
> writing down a list of functions I changed just for the fun of it

As a reviewer, there's something to be said about having an overview of=
the whole diff (which can get long) in a few paragraphs on top of the
patch. A good commit message like that actually makes a lot of things
clear in advance.

<= div dir=3D"auto">+1. I even use this for my own projects or projects where = it's not required. Producing that list is a last self-reviewing step th= at summarizes _how_ the change was implemented. The diff itself is the ulti= mate source, but a summary is it very welcome.

<= /div>
Of course most good commit messages don't stop t= here, they also explain the _why_.

In general, Konstantin. I think your "for fun" exempli= fies how you and many others think of these procedures as spurious, or grat= uitous. But they're not, they exist because she people, whom you may di= sagree with, find them useful.

Jo=C3=A3o

Jo=C3= =A3o
--00000000000085467605a7fc573b--