From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib? Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2023 14:39:21 +0000 Message-ID: References: <871qd8sfdx.fsf@posteo.net> <838r7g8pys.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkcbrgnr.fsf@posteo.net> <25924.21015.19614.951576@orion.rgrjr.com> <87bkc4jpja.fsf@dataswamp.org> <12da6bcb-1818-7fbe-12af-8d4607724332@gutov.dev> <87il6bt4z0.fsf@yahoo.com> <8734xetjkk.fsf@yahoo.com> <87cywhsrcf.fsf@yahoo.com> <87cywgx1z0.fsf@web.de> <83wmuowwp3.fsf@gnu.org> <83cywgwg3z.fsf@gnu.org> <838r74wfdl.fsf@gnu.org> <835y28weni.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="24745"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 11 15:37:25 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r1p6y-0006Fk-Ha for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 15:37:24 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r1p6B-0006tG-Fe; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 09:36:35 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r1p6A-0006t5-96 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 09:36:34 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-lf1-x130.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::130]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r1p67-0003Yo-JR; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 09:36:33 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-lf1-x130.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-507c5249d55so4462168e87.3; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 06:36:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1699713388; x=1700318188; darn=gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=gsJeuoUJtLNwd6a3Db+B6YBtEID3N6982ueBc/1206k=; b=Zq9W6YEappN7hpy5RU5aQNrZXilJe9KEW2jtsbPhBt9RIUfQa6vJ8DQCiQFo4lYMk5 5wDhRinFhtyIHugJcucpdz+zHh6zjLYXNMAqO8kTJ5EFTyaqCzybeUMMx0Ajbuqb6W5f hIXvpV6rGFY1rpVy9vKcSNM9J5w+g0Ac7c30spXSY5lckkspDRXgzHGUmE+wmLYkirp0 TshZdvWGWmiLtOlQwFB1od/7+elK7OdtZn3rLvAO6WhmLo+bYOm/BTT5KJSqBCuyFPzV M3WG52pa+7W8qTqW73QIpWU2TaWHNejWvW9hBqrrUkta3GoPooZilN6BHHrO3X54Zhbf 6VJA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1699713388; x=1700318188; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=gsJeuoUJtLNwd6a3Db+B6YBtEID3N6982ueBc/1206k=; b=b5ufyn8zp69FsdZhejNf+2yN0FN5EnfNYtQ1394JViujZqzXncsKv4ffEtLmfVc482 hdtUW5XjAXiud5KrvU9aU1gOK+wHg/p+laVDvxYjbMVN6if1iCkORKac4ycnblb+7cer J1grftTYupNmB53zdtrMWHPtwWAH4J1QPtT0gD4toC6rprokgH5lNWSvdrBdqRhEaz2i W843clEkHM1QWc3gAJetwK0IBRuS14lynHm6dn/LBxqvpAZ92cS95TrxqEp6mC/sUCty uVzq7Ip5XoaLXEaXuLgxiT9VzrgXs7h6/6OVJbbpqiuhPJgF16ELkJi0KO3S6H1qDDt5 qPjA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzNFDQD2KI3MMSqPCjxV0CkiduZd9JRH0d/7oHYfCw3fc7cFBKO ovca0yBmZZfpjEjVCgvWM+4XAtJF9p6rmqsN5cjmznxYT+k= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEy2c+QaiXqKgwvPvhXyDzkUjLnfSUHAvHiHIAX6l9Q9vPru5w01hgPuveQ1OHg0qwaW9d9woDhh4N/2OUsBCM= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4d1a:0:b0:507:9ef2:fb1c with SMTP id r26-20020ac24d1a000000b005079ef2fb1cmr1321762lfi.2.1699713388360; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 06:36:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <835y28weni.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::130; envelope-from=joaotavora@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x130.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:312579 Archived-At: On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 2:25=E2=80=AFPM Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > From: Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora > > Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2023 14:22:19 +0000 > > Cc: Michael Heerdegen , emacs-devel > > > > I included seq.el because I see nothing wrong with adding > > cl-defmethods to seq.el with more efficient implementations for > > specific types of sequences. Whether it does or doesn't make sense > > depends on the specifics, which are not on the table at this time. I > > certainly don't agree with rejecting the idea of adding specific > > implementations to seq.el, let alone its wholesale rejection, > > > > I don't reject it either. I just wrote that seq.el can not be "viewed a= s a drop-in replacement", which in > > common programming talk means we have to look at each "similar implemen= tion" case by case and > > be attentive to where we use each, or to how we recommend its usage. > > No one said that seq.el is a "drop-in replacement" for anything. I didn't say you did!! I just contributed that perspective of mine. > We prefer it to be used where that makes sense, because seq.el is > preloaded. Very well, and I contributed the opinion that the reason it is preloaded is not sufficient in itself. It must, as you now more clearly underline, "make sense". And IMHO it makes _more_ sense the greater the likelihood that custom sequence types -- a core seq.el design tenet -- may be be involved. I pointed out performance considerations and the self-documenting nature of that usage to be two _additional_ factors to take in consideration. I think this is logical and doesn't really contradict anything you or Michael said. Jo=C3=A3o