From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#62720: 29.0.60; Not easy at all to upgrade :core packages like Eglot Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 19:32:40 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87a5zj2vfo.fsf@gmail.com> <831qkp6o0i.fsf@gnu.org> <83wn2h5825.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn2gkhzr.fsf@posteo.net> <83cz485oxi.fsf@gnu.org> <87leiwdyff.fsf@posteo.net> <834jpk5hih.fsf@gnu.org> <871qkom3fj.fsf@posteo.net> <83mt3b4yfc.fsf@gnu.org> <87edonlsxi.fsf@posteo.net> <83jzyf4vzb.fsf@gnu.org> <871qknllkj.fsf@posteo.net> <83fs934pjf.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn2fk47y.fsf@posteo.net> <83sfd2g2ek.fsf@gnu.org> <875y9yfxrr.fsf@gmail.com> <87y1muefks.fsf@gmail.com> <835y9yfj68.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2874"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 62720@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com, philipk@posteo.net, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 14 20:31:09 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pnOCS-0000f2-J5 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 20:31:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pnOCP-0000l5-72; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 14:31:05 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pnOCO-0000jP-7R for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 14:31:04 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pnOCM-0001p1-FN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 14:31:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pnOCM-0006Mv-B6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 14:31:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 18:31:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62720 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 62720-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B62720.168149705324466 (code B ref 62720); Fri, 14 Apr 2023 18:31:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 62720) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Apr 2023 18:30:53 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47608 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pnOCC-0006MY-Rs for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 14:30:53 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-oo1-f45.google.com ([209.85.161.45]:40629) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pnOCA-0006MK-UF for 62720@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 14:30:51 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-oo1-f45.google.com with SMTP id k13-20020a4ad98d000000b00542416816b1so533084oou.7 for <62720@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 11:30:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1681497045; x=1684089045; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=RIARrf+q8FA4e28O35RgMkBHclyBcPAOtk0NsJx2+Qs=; b=p03w3QyBozD75oz4NBApWO43as7+niqwV9WaBrC8eFlRDOIntXEUa4RmsT/EXFPNoM oZ8LrCyKYaPUaPGvtdstDWUEIIHCqJruox+R6BMT2B5KoryUU6FIAPVK//G8gKeWObjF gGSqnbDM2lBCYrqjKqPvJeSLDuKquyB3L6vRo2V4o2rcjRwCRNFr+C99bOoK6VCI2clx G9csmhM0ULiyfqn4b1Fk42xO8Kvxpbiy7WouNpCfAxxtv1oqQC2OR3J0QItb8O5oOIsE x4zCk7Kmx6syygt3jeh8fjiObtbh+AnUkR0hdMCGmQIBXT5fWSD2UtSaNdQj5MmPqKOu TV8A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1681497045; x=1684089045; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=RIARrf+q8FA4e28O35RgMkBHclyBcPAOtk0NsJx2+Qs=; b=WP7aTUzWYYokxnz0t2lx2xWuxKTLhKBs9HDXNNLuoe1Yrzxm7G3H8JTOaWTZ89jCvJ p7ZRkHc5aY3Ckobcac/TT2okOJBYW0t3efGIgDVqy81c56nsijI/ouz3/e4lcO+SBzKb yegp10I3fSUbt8Fg/JPSVw+80kSzYens6+3vhvZ3MRdfH7wtcjKdneQtgCpZ9IUUnK93 KcguCQIMDQ5aUDyt+bKULAbAC6jEt8nm1HfqbDPC+joAshRPiLhj9BOETylTcX68Ue5t SlJu5nt8fCVQR5HjPUB24KGluzztvxdYh+/+vQYcMZd888FTWKA7Yf/ARV3ZsouidNtX 0FBw== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9e9f+055xv3ElDEEmErZ+Ns3reQCTifd2uestnE7wsrchaqUiBI OHVZ0q2H/XVi0BP8bq39krPNaj/He8CIsUDhLnU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350Y3WTEvT+zTwZwy4rmk7hWIWgqa0qbdama6w+OQrMngwo8R8PTMDj8JCGLlDpg697VaVlX3sbxY2BJTVh3dmdo= X-Received: by 2002:a4a:b80b:0:b0:541:f929:272d with SMTP id g11-20020a4ab80b000000b00541f929272dmr3369869oop.1.1681497045066; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 11:30:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <835y9yfj68.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:259956 Archived-At: On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 6:49=E2=80=AFPM Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > I think it should do the same thing, not only because it's > > nicer for the unsuspecting user, but also because trying to > > protect this user from "unintentional" upgrade of certain "unstable" > > packages, as it seems to be the idea here, is a losing game > > anyway, just because dependencies. > > "The same thing" for Eglot means "not the same thing" for other core > packages. So you are in effect calling for breaking everyone else to > cater only to Eglot. That is not going to happen, for more than one > reason. > when you say "compatibility", you seem to have only one its aspect in > mind: that of Eglot. But that is not the only aspect of the previous > behavior, and I, at least, must consider those other aspects as well. You seem to be worried about "everyone else" typing, say, M-x package-insta= ll RET seq RET and getting an updated 'seq' as a result. OK, but who does this and why, in your opinion? And who has `(package-install seq)` in their config and why? And won't they get the same updated 'seq' "accidentally" if they install anything else that depends on newer seq, which is likely a lot of non-core packages and likely to grow? I just can't see these "other aspects", i.e. who or whose use cases you wish to protect with multiple user knobs to get a razor thin level of protection. But even if these people and use cases did exist, you're still plainly misrepresenting my position by writing that I'm "calling for breaking" them. I even proposed making a simple whitelist of packages that have migrated from outside core to core. And I've proposed confirmation prompts for the interactive calls. And others have proposed blacklists. These things are trivial to implement in Elisp. Jo=C3=A3o