What are Emacs best uses?

What are Emacs best uses?

[Jorge]

Hi.  What are the best uses of Emacs?  I currently use it to compose emails,
manage files, to edit LaTeX, and to edit source code and configuration files.
But Emacs seems to be mediocre at viewing PDFs.  Evince has better search.

  What is Emacs really good for?  Is it a good personal information manager?
Can you manage your information (todo, grocery list, etc.) and sync with a
smartphone?  If you can't sync with a smartphone, how do you manage the
grocery list?

  Is it a good calendar?  Can you easily collaborate with colleagues who use
Google Calendar?

  Is it a good email reader?  Does it work with gmail?

  Is Emacs adapting well to the changing computing landscape?

  Thank you for your attention.

Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 12.08.2013 um 19:05 schrieb Jorge:

>  What is Emacs really good for?

For doing the job.

> Is it a good personal information manager?

Well, I prefer to read Wikipedia outside of GNU Emacs and there I also store my passwords. Do you have more personal information to manage?

> Can you manage your information (todo, grocery list, etc.) and sync with a
> smartphone?

What is a smartphone good for? I prefer to spend my superfluous money for charity. And stay smart myself…

> If you can't sync with a smartphone, how do you manage the grocery list?

It's an empty list, it makes no problems. Who in the world needs dead meat?

> 
>  Is it a good calendar?

I think: No! I prepare my holidays on bike with Pcal. It allows to use nicer fonts – or I'm a bit to lazy to set up GNU Emacs for this. (But the Pcal file is at least edited in GNU Emacs!)

> Can you easily collaborate with colleagues who use Google Calendar?

I prefer to keep my private dates really private. No Google. Absolutely!

> 
>  Is it a good email reader?  Does it work with gmail?

I don't know. Maybe not, because I am using a different application.

> 
>  Is Emacs adapting well to the changing computing landscape?

Of course! Every day you can receive a few updates.

--
Greetings

  Pete

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
		-Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania

Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[Charles Philip Chan]

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Jorge <1gato0a@gmail.com> writes:

> What is Emacs really good for?  Is it a good personal information
> manager?

> Can you manage your information (todo, grocery list, etc.) and sync
> with a smartphone?

Yes. Org-mode[1] (now part of Emacs) is by far the best PIM that I have
ever encountered. One can think of it as Ecco Pro[2] on steroids.

> If you can't sync with a smartphone, how do you manage the grocery
> list?

One can sync Org-mode with smart phones (Android & IOS) via MobileOrg[3].

> Is it a good calendar?  Can you easily collaborate with colleagues who
> use Google Calendar?

One can sync Org-mode with Google Calendar several ways:

    http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-google-sync.html

or just use MobileOrg, which will take care of that for you.

> Is it a good email reader?  Does it work with gmail?

Yes, via IMAP. 

Charles

Footnotes: 
[1] http://orgmode.org/

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecco_Pro 

[3] https://github.com/matburt/mobileorg-android
    http://mobileorg.ncogni.to/

-- 
Linux!  Guerrilla UNIX Development     Venimus, Vidimus, Dolavimus.
(By mah@ka4ybr.com, Mark A. Horton KA4YBR)

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Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[Jorge]

On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 1:04 AM, Charles Philip Chan <cpchan@bell.net> wrote:
>> Is it a good email reader?  Does it work with gmail?
> Yes, via IMAP.

  But gmail allows multiple labels per conversation(thread).  Does this not
confuse Emacs?  Also, does Emacs group threads differently from Gmail, meaning
that you see a different thing in Emacs than what you see in the web
interface?  Does this cause problems?  Is there any potential for data loss?

  Thank you for your attention
--
The sooner we fight global heating, the lesser the cost.

Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[Charles Philip Chan]

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Jorge <1gato0a@gmail.com> writes:

Hi Jorge:

>   But gmail allows multiple labels per conversation(thread).  Does
> this not confuse Emacs?  Also, does Emacs group threads differently
> from Gmail, meaning that you see a different thing in Emacs than what
> you see in the web interface?  Does this cause problems?  Is there any
> potential for data loss?

This will answer all your questions:

     https://support.google.com/mail/answer/77657?hl=en

Personally I don't use the web interface- I detest web mail. I prefer to
download my emails from my various online accounts via pop3 with
fetchmail. They are then feed to procmail for splitting (a hand crafted
.promailrc which include a dynamic procmail config file generated by
niko-bbdb-split.el[1] and with spamassasin integration). The emails are
put into the various folders via dovecot's dovecot-lda command in a
maildir hierarchy. I can then read my email from anywhere by connecting
to my home dovecot server via imaps.

Charles

Footnotes: 
[1] http://osdir.com/ml/bbdb/2012-08/msg00068.html 

-- 
"However, complexity is not always the enemy."

  -- Larry Wall (Open Sources, 1999 O'Reilly and Associates)

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Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[Jorge]

Regarding Emacs as a mail reader:
1) What about HTML email? I don't even know how much HTML mail I receive
(because it is transparent), but I am afraid it is significant.
2) What about importing Google Contacts (the Gmail address book) into Emacs?
Can it be done easily without data loss?  And once I migrate to Emacs'
contacts, will I easily see the contacts on my Android smartphone?

Thank you for your attention

Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[Phillip Lord]

Jorge <1gato0a@gmail.com> writes:

> Regarding Emacs as a mail reader:
> 1) What about HTML email? I don't even know how much HTML mail I receive
> (because it is transparent), but I am afraid it is significant.


Couple of ways to deal with this. I just get lynx to render the HTML
which works for me. Doesn't work great with stuff with lots of images
in, but for me this is normally spam, which makes this a feature.

Phil

Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[Charles Philip Chan]

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Jorge <1gato0a@gmail.com> writes:

Hi Jorge:

> Regarding Emacs as a mail reader:

> 1) What about HTML email? I don't even know how much HTML mail I
> receive (because it is transparent), but I am afraid it is
> significant.

The setup is dependent on which emailer you choose to use in Emacs. With
the exception of recent versions of Gnus (which can use the builtin shr
render), they all seem to depend on using w3m as a backend. Which
emailer are you using?

For composing html mails (if you must), you can use org-mime.el:

    http://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/org-mime.html

> 2) What about importing Google Contacts (the Gmail address book) into
> Emacs?  Can it be done easily without data loss?  And once I migrate
> to Emacs' contacts, will I easily see the contacts on my Android
> smartphone?

If you use bbdb, you can sync it with Google Contacts with Asynk:

   https://karra-asynk.appspot.com/

Charles

-- 
"People get annoyed when you try to debug them."

  -- Larry Wall (Open Sources, 1999 O'Reilly and Associates)

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Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Jorge <1gato0a@gmail.com> writes:

> On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 1:04 AM, Charles Philip Chan <cpchan@bell.net> wrote:
>>> Is it a good email reader?  Does it work with gmail?
>> Yes, via IMAP.
>
>   But gmail allows multiple labels per conversation(thread).  Does this not
> confuse Emacs?  Also, does Emacs group threads differently from Gmail, meaning
> that you see a different thing in Emacs than what you see in the web
> interface?  Does this cause problems?  Is there any potential for data loss?

You could also consider using notmuch as an MUA. You can use it to tag
messages, in a way that's fairly similar to the gmail interface, and
it's conversation view looks a lot like gmail's.

E

Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[Phillip Lord]

Jorge <1gato0a@gmail.com> writes:
> Hi.  What are the best uses of Emacs?  

>   What is Emacs really good for?  Is it a good personal information manager?

It's a jack of all trades. I can manage my personal information, and
write code. and web pages, and interact with a versioning system. All
the knowledge and muscle memory that I learn from one task cuts across
to another.

There are many tasks for which it is not the best tool -- I still use it
to write Java, when Eclipse is better. But, it's good enough, and I
don't have to relearn everything which happens in eclipse.

And it's easy to extend; there are some rare syntaxes that I use, and I
want support. Adding this to emacs is easy, and on the fly.

Phil

RE: What are Emacs best uses?

[Drew Adams]

> > What is Emacs really good for?
> 
> It's a jack of all trades.

Emacs is a hack for all decades.

Its learning curve has steep grades, glissades, cascades, and everglades.

Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[W. Greenhouse]

Hi Jorge,

Jorge <1gato0a@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi.  What are the best uses of Emacs?  I currently use it to compose emails,
> manage files, to edit LaTeX, and to edit source code and configuration files.
> But Emacs seems to be mediocre at viewing PDFs.  Evince has better
> search.

I would certainly agree that doc-view-mode is a most peculiar PDF/PS/DVI
viewer, but you should be aware that, in addition to C-s to do regexp
search on the page images, you can also use C-c C-t to see a text-only
representation (actually, `pdftotext' command output) which is more
suitable for heavy manipulation of the text of the PDF.

>   What is Emacs really good for?

Emacs's key features are due to being a consistent and cohesive Lisp
environment with a rich library of functions, which, due to the nature
of a Lisp environment, can easily be re-used by any other software
installed on Emacs.  This is a level of interaction similar to, but even
deeper than, the interaction between two applications running under the
same desktop environment.

Some examples:

- Running a compile job or a debugger under Emacs, you can simply click
  on the file and line number of an error to see the error in context in
  the source.

- My Emacs mailclient understands what a patch file is, and highlights it
  just like a buffer in `diff-mode' showing the same patch.

- doc-view-mode uses the Emacs bookmark system [1] to save the exact
  page in a PDF.  My mailclient can also use the bookmark system to save
  a reference to a particular email.

- My Emacs IRC client can display rendered LaTeX equations right in an
  IRC channel ( http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/ErcTex ).

Some of these use cases might seem rather trivial, but the overall point
is that Emacs offers the ability to use and reuse a very deep library of
Lisp functions, not just for text manipulation but also for networking,
file management, handling of subprocesses, etc., within a consistent
interface that does not cause a worker to have to break context to do a
new task.

> Is it a good personal information manager?  Can you manage your
> information (todo, grocery list, etc.) and sync with a smartphone?  If
> you can't sync with a smartphone, how do you manage the grocery list?

There are several personal information managers for Emacs, the most
popular and actively developed being Org.[2]  In
addition to offering TODO/agenda/outliner, Org comprises a full
plain-text office suite, with document authoring, spreadsheet, and
database aspects as well as literate programming features and the
ability to run scripts in other languages to generate content in a file.

I am a law graduate, and I use Org to organize legal research, write
briefs, outline oral arguments, and keep track of appointments.

Org's mobile sync interface is MobileOrg.[3]

For devotees of the "hipster PDA",[4] Emacs PIM strategies also work
well; the Emacs calendar and Org can both be made to print a LaTeX
version of your agenda and appointments which fits on index cards or
other small papers suitable for stashing away in a jacket pocket or
Moleskine notebook. ;-)

> Is it a good calendar?  Can you easily collaborate with colleagues who
> use Google Calendar?

I find Org's agenda combined with the Emacs calendar to be very
effective.  In the past, it was easier to use Emacs to collaborate with
GCal users, because there are several Elisp libraries to interface with
the standard iCal API; today this has become more difficult because
Google has discontinued its iCal support.  The elimination of all
third-party Google Calendar clients, the better to attract eyeballs to
the web interface, cannot be far behind.

My solution for the moment is to use my phone for any Google Calendar
stuff (and other non-free API junk).  The phone's calendar shows both
GCal events with others and my private MobileOrg calendare events.

>   Is it a good email reader?  Does it work with gmail?

Respectively, yes[5] and yes.[6]

>   Is Emacs adapting well to the changing computing landscape?

To the extent that the changing computing landscape means that APIs are
being eliminated or locked down into walled gardens, Emacs is not
adapting and cannot adapt.  However, for those users who need a cohesive
working environment in which tools behave in a consistent and completely
customizable way, without unpleasant surprises, Emacs remains an
excellent choice, and never more actively developed than today.

Besides the Emacs Wiki, I would commend to you Sacha Chua's blog.[7]
Sacha is a former IBMer, Seriously Efficient Person™, and possibly one
of the best explainers of Emacs around right now.

>   Thank you for your attention.

Thanks for the question. 

Footnotes: 
[1]  (info "(emacs) Bookmarks")

[2]  http://orgmode.org/

[3]  http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/mobileorg/

[4]  http://www.43folders.com/2004/09/03/introducing-the-hipster-pda

[5]  http://gnus.org/ and http://djcbsoftware.nl/code/mu/ are two Emacs
mailreaders I particularly like.

[6]  http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/GnusGmail

[7]  http://sachachua.com/blog/category/emacs/

--
W. Greenhouse
gpg --recv-keys 2E8B1B740D2D3F9E
Written in Gnus v5.13 on GNU Emacs 24.3.1

Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[Thomas Shannon]

wgreenhouse@riseup.net (W. Greenhouse) writes:

>> Is it a good calendar?  Can you easily collaborate with colleagues who
>> use Google Calendar?
>
> I find Org's agenda combined with the Emacs calendar to be very
> effective.  In the past, it was easier to use Emacs to collaborate with
> GCal users, because there are several Elisp libraries to interface with
> the standard iCal API; today this has become more difficult because
> Google has discontinued its iCal support.  The elimination of all
> third-party Google Calendar clients, the better to attract eyeballs to
> the web interface, cannot be far behind.
>
> My solution for the moment is to use my phone for any Google Calendar
> stuff (and other non-free API junk).  The phone's calendar shows both
> GCal events with others and my private MobileOrg calendare events.

Thank you for this answer which caught me attention.  I have thus far
resisted org mode for a few reasons one of which is that I have my own
system for keeping a diary and journal and I like using it.  However, I
*would* like to be able to view my diary on my iPhone.  Its not an
org-mode file per se.  Just a regular text file (actually a LaTeX file).
Can mobileorg allow me to work with it?

Thanks,
Tom S.

Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[W. Greenhouse]

Hi Thomas,

Thomas Shannon <tshanno-fqfsQMZRun20YGhXjO3W79BPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> writes:

> wgreenhouse-sGOZH3hwPm2sTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org (W. Greenhouse) writes:
>
>>> Is it a good calendar?  Can you easily collaborate with colleagues who
>>> use Google Calendar?
>>
>> I find Org's agenda combined with the Emacs calendar to be very
>> effective.  In the past, it was easier to use Emacs to collaborate with
>> GCal users, because there are several Elisp libraries to interface with
>> the standard iCal API; today this has become more difficult because
>> Google has discontinued its iCal support.  The elimination of all
>> third-party Google Calendar clients, the better to attract eyeballs to
>> the web interface, cannot be far behind.
>>
>> My solution for the moment is to use my phone for any Google Calendar
>> stuff (and other non-free API junk).  The phone's calendar shows both
>> GCal events with others and my private MobileOrg calendare events.
>
> Thank you for this answer which caught me attention.  I have thus far
> resisted org mode for a few reasons one of which is that I have my own
> system for keeping a diary and journal and I like using it.  However, I
> *would* like to be able to view my diary on my iPhone.  Its not an
> org-mode file per se.  Just a regular text file (actually a LaTeX file).
> Can mobileorg allow me to work with it?

I don't think you can use MobileOrg in its current form to deal with
your .tex diary.  MobileOrg takes a repository of .org files which you
provide to a mobile somehow (by local storage, by WebDav or SSH, etc.),
lets you edit them on the mobile, and synchronizes those changes back to
Org.  So it needs an existing hierarchy of .org files and it needs to
parse those to generate TODO and calendar events.

A calendar in LaTeX might be more suitable for the "hipster PDA"
strategy: print out a week or so at a time and fold it up into a jacket
pocket or notebook.  Emacs can help you do this too, and in fact the
calendar/diary has some pre-built LaTeX layouts that are suitable for
this.  See (info "(emacs) Writing Calendar Files") for some info on the
`cal-tex' library which does this.

--
W. Greenhouse
gpg --recv-keys 2E8B1B740D2D3F9E

Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[Thomas Shannon]

wgreenhouse@riseup.net (W. Greenhouse) writes:

> A calendar in LaTeX might be more suitable for the "hipster PDA"
> strategy: print out a week or so at a time and fold it up into a jacket
> pocket or notebook.  Emacs can help you do this too, and in fact the
> calendar/diary has some pre-built LaTeX layouts that are suitable for
> this.  See (info "(emacs) Writing Calendar Files") for some info on the
> `cal-tex' library which does this.

Yes, I agree.  However I've never been able to get one of these to
compile with my entries inserted.  I think its because many of the
entries have LaTeX code inserted into them and somewhere along the line
things get confused.  I really should investigate
further and file a bug report but I haven't gotten around to it.

In the mean time I'm perfectly fine with saving the fancy diary display
as a text file and updating it on my phone.  It actually works pretty
well.  Indeed, converting the Fancy Diary to LaTeX is trivial and I may
automate it some day.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Tom S.

Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[Ken Goldman]

I use it for __text__ editing.  I don't use it for web browsing, pdf or 
image viewing, etc.

For many applications, coding in C, Java, scripting, makefiles, email, 
documentation, ..., there is probably some point tool that works 
slightly better.  But emacs does all of them quite well, and it runs 
everywhere, so you only have to learn one editor.

On 8/12/2013 1:05 PM, Jorge wrote:
> Hi.  What are the best uses of Emacs?  I currently use it to compose emails,
> manage files, to edit LaTeX, and to edit source code and configuration files.
> But Emacs seems to be mediocre at viewing PDFs.  Evince has better search.

Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[Nikolay Kudryavtsev]

As quite a few people said before, Org mode is the killer feature of 
emacs nowadays.

Tramp is another thing that should be mentioned. Now you can even do 
remote sudo with it. That makes Emacs perfect for certain Unix system 
administration tasks.

With programming it's not as clear-cut. Some things are amazing, like 
vc, with it's support of so many back-ends and ability to work over 
tramp. Debugging on the other hand is usually way more painful, than it 
should be.

> Is Emacs adapting well to the changing computing landscape?
Yes and no. Emacs IMO has quite some troubles with adapting to certain 
current technologies. On the other hand it's way in the future. While in 
mainstream computing, users just use some prebuild and almost 
unchangeable product, in Emacs-land user is this divine being that has 
total control over it's environment. That's how computers should work. 
So Emacs is the first thing that adapted.

-- 
Best Regards,
Nikolay Kudryavtsev

Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[Luca Ferrari]

On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 7:05 PM, Jorge <1gato0a@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi.  What are the best uses of Emacs?

Don't know what is the "best" but my usage of emacs ranges from
editing source code (not Java, for that I hate to say I prefer an IDE)
and configuration files. I use it to edit documents, mainly in org
mode, and to manage some todos. Let's say I use Emacs for any
application I don't have a better application/editor.


>   What is Emacs really good for?

Interpreting elisp.

> Is it a good personal information manager?

I think it is, as well as unix tools and text files are.

> Can you manage your information (todo, grocery list, etc.) and sync with a
> smartphone?

My smartphone is not smart enough to sync with emacs.


>   Is Emacs adapting well to the changing computing landscape?

I believe it is, since Emacs pretty much remains the same (I mean,
with the same user interface), that is very important in a world that
changes. After all, why use Emacs for reading mails, edit source files
and the others? Because you can have all you keybings doing almost the
same in the environment. You don't need to learn another program for
each task, just a few keybindings into the same environment. This is
very important to me.

With regard to the Google integration of Emacs I don't have
experience, since I usually work behind a proxy and that is quite
nasty to setup with Emacs (in my opinion). By the way, I would love to
have Emacs integrating with google platform, I hate the web interface.
But to be honest, I believe this will hardly happen: after all you
have to buy google products to work with google stuff....

Luca

Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[Sebastien Vauban]

Hello Luca,

Luca Ferrari wrote:
> With regard to the Google integration of Emacs I don't have
> experience, since I usually work behind a proxy and that is quite
> nasty to setup with Emacs (in my opinion).

Could this help?

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
      ;; use proxy
      (setq url-proxy-services
            `(("http"     . ,(getenv "http_proxy"))
              ("ftp"      . ,(getenv "http_proxy"))
              ("no_proxy" . "^.*example.com")))
              ;; disable proxy for some hosts
     ))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sebastien Vauban

Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[Luca Ferrari]

On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Sebastien Vauban
<sva-news@mygooglest.com> wrote:

> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
>       ;; use proxy
>       (setq url-proxy-services
>             `(("http"     . ,(getenv "http_proxy"))
>               ("ftp"      . ,(getenv "http_proxy"))
>               ("no_proxy" . "^.*example.com")))
>               ;; disable proxy for some hosts
>      ))
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>

Despite two extra parens in the end, no, it does not help. I tried to
update the package list but got "Failed to download 'gnu' archive". I
then tried to get an URL with w3 but I got "http/80 Name or service
unknown".
How can I test if the proxy settings are working? By the way,
http_proxy is set correctly.

Thanks,
Luca

Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[Sebastien Vauban]

Luca Ferrari wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Sebastien Vauban wrote:
>
>> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
>>       ;; use proxy
>>       (setq url-proxy-services
>>             `(("http"     . ,(getenv "http_proxy"))
>>               ("ftp"      . ,(getenv "http_proxy"))
>>               ("no_proxy" . "^.*example.com")))
>>               ;; disable proxy for some hosts
>>      ))
>> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>
> Despite two extra parens in the end,

Yep, sorry!

> no, it does not help. I tried to update the package list but got "Failed to
> download 'gnu' archive". I then tried to get an URL with w3 but I got
> "http/80 Name or service unknown".

???

> How can I test if the proxy settings are working? By the way, http_proxy is
> set correctly.

M-x browse-url-emacs RET http://www.google.com/ RET?

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sebastien Vauban

Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[Luca Ferrari]

On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:25 AM, Sebastien Vauban
<sva-news@mygooglest.com> wrote:

> M-x browse-url-emacs RET http://www.google.com/ RET?
>

I see "Contacting host: www.google.com:80" and nothing happens.
Any idea?

Thanks,
Luca

Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[Sebastien Vauban]

Luca Ferrari wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:25 AM, Sebastien Vauban wrote:
>
>> M-x browse-url-emacs RET http://www.google.com/ RET?
>
> I see "Contacting host: www.google.com:80" and nothing happens.
> Any idea?

No, except that it does not seem to use the proxy, then... Sorry.

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sebastien Vauban

Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[Jason Rumney]

On Monday, 19 August 2013 22:35:13 UTC+8, Luca Ferrari  wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Sebastien Vauban wrote:
> 
> > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> 
> >       ;; use proxy
> >       (setq url-proxy-services
> >             `(("http"     . ,(getenv "http_proxy"))
> >               ("ftp"      . ,(getenv "http_proxy"))
> >               ("no_proxy" . "^.*example.com"))) 
> >               ;; disable proxy for some hosts
> > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>
> Despite two extra parens in the end, no, it does not help. I tried to 
> update the package list but got "Failed to download 'gnu' archive". I
> then tried to get an URL with w3 but I got "http/80 Name or service
> unknown".

Emacs expects just hostname and port in `url-proxy-services'. Generally the http_proxy environment variable will be prefixed with "http://", as that is what some other programs expect.

Either change the above to explicitly use your proxy server details

    (setq url-proxy-services
          (("http" . "proxy-host:port")
;; etc...
          ))

or if you really want to use the environment variables, add some code to strip off the leading "http://" and any trailing "/".

Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[Luca Ferrari]

On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 3:58 AM, Jason Rumney <jasonrumney@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >       ;; use proxy
>> >       (setq url-proxy-services
>> >             `(("http"     . ,(getenv "http_proxy"))
>> >               ("ftp"      . ,(getenv "http_proxy"))
>> >               ("no_proxy" . "^.*example.com")))
>> >               ;; disable proxy for some hosts


In the message window, when trying to connect and browse an URL I got:

Contacting host: http:80
open-network-stream: http/80 Name or service not known


Now, if I set the http_proxy to leave off the "http" emacs asks me the
username/password of the proxy for 3 times and then fails with
authentication error. The same if I strip off the username/password
from the http_proxy variable.

Any other idea?

Thanks,
Luca


>>
>> Despite two extra parens in the end, no, it does not help. I tried to
>> update the package list but got "Failed to download 'gnu' archive". I
>> then tried to get an URL with w3 but I got "http/80 Name or service
>> unknown".
>
> Emacs expects just hostname and port in `url-proxy-services'. Generally the http_proxy environment variable will be prefixed with "http://", as that is what some other programs expect.
>
> Either change the above to explicitly use your proxy server details
>
>     (setq url-proxy-services
>           (("http" . "proxy-host:port")
> ;; etc...
>           ))
>
> or if you really want to use the environment variables, add some code to strip off the leading "http://" and any trailing "/".

Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[Pascal J. Bourguignon]

Jorge <1gato0a@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi.  What are the best uses of Emacs?  I currently use it to compose emails,
> manage files, to edit LaTeX, and to edit source code and configuration files.
> But Emacs seems to be mediocre at viewing PDFs.  Evince has better search.
>
>   What is Emacs really good for?  Is it a good personal information manager?
> Can you manage your information (todo, grocery list, etc.) and sync with a
> smartphone?  If you can't sync with a smartphone, how do you manage the
> grocery list?
>
>   Is it a good calendar?  Can you easily collaborate with colleagues who use
> Google Calendar?
>
>   Is it a good email reader?  Does it work with gmail?
>
>   Is Emacs adapting well to the changing computing landscape?
>
>   Thank you for your attention.

Well, I would say that emacs is bad at everything, BUT a single thing:

      it is good at being modified.

So if there's something bad in it that you don't like, you can easily
modify it by writting a few emacs lisp functions, and make it acceptable
for you, for that task.

Of course, this now implies a dynamic process where emacs has been and
is continuously improved, and therefore where it becomes good at some
things.  But it's difficult to characterize them, since it has evolved
and continues to evolve purely in accordance to the needs of its users,
since its users are also its programmers (at least potentially).


Ok, so let's see what other programs beside emacs I use, perhaps that'll
give us a hint at what emacs is bad:

- mplayer
- firefox
- xterm+screen
- acroread


Ok, so emacs is bad at playing videos.  Actually, it's still rather bad
at displaying dynamic 2D pictures, never mind animated 2D pictures.

Ok, so emacs is bad at interpreting javascript and css to display web
pages (even for pure text web browsing, most people use w3m, and
external browser, rather than w3 an emacs lisp browser).

Ok, so emacs is bad at running a terminal emulator.  
M-x term RET /usr/bin/screen RET is no good. 
That said, you can use emacs as a dumb terminal, and even open several
such dumb terminals, so you don't really need screen.

Ok, so emacs is bad at displaying PDF.  Again, the rendering is actually
done by xpdf or ghostscript, and emacs just displays (badly) the image.


Now, it's quite natural that emacs fails in this domain, since it's a
TEXT editor from the start, not an IMAGE editor.

But this gives a strong hint that emacs capabilities could be vastly
extended, by just providing an OpenGL (modern graphics) API accessible
from emacs lisp.


    (create-graphic-buffer "This Evening Movie"
      (movie-play "/movies/scifi/starwars-4.avi"))
   
                            

-- 
__Pascal Bourguignon__
http://www.informatimago.com/

Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[Andreas Röhler]

Am 12.08.2013 20:08, schrieb Pascal J. Bourguignon:
> Jorge <1gato0a@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Hi.  What are the best uses of Emacs?  I currently use it to compose emails,
>> manage files, to edit LaTeX, and to edit source code and configuration files.
>> But Emacs seems to be mediocre at viewing PDFs.  Evince has better search.
>>
>>    What is Emacs really good for?  Is it a good personal information manager?
>> Can you manage your information (todo, grocery list, etc.) and sync with a
>> smartphone?  If you can't sync with a smartphone, how do you manage the
>> grocery list?
>>
>>    Is it a good calendar?  Can you easily collaborate with colleagues who use
>> Google Calendar?
>>
>>    Is it a good email reader?  Does it work with gmail?
>>
>>    Is Emacs adapting well to the changing computing landscape?
>>
>>    Thank you for your attention.
>
> Well, I would say that emacs is bad at everything, BUT a single thing:
>
>        it is good at being modified.
>

IMHO it's time to create an Emacs-Foundation, which might collect and distribute funds in order to make
Emacs competitive in several areas.

[ ... ]

Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[Joe Corneli]

On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 7:08 PM, Pascal J. Bourguignon
<pjb@informatimago.com> wrote:

> Ok, so let's see what other programs beside emacs I use, perhaps that'll
> give us a hint at what emacs is bad:

Nice!  And, going the other direction, here are a few files that I've
had a reason to use (or create, or customize) when working on my
thesis or day job, or just for fun, over the last year or so.  I hope
the titles are explanatory enough.  To concur with Pascal's point
about personal modifications: most of these aren't published anywhere.

"Miscellaneous" - quick coding for fun and profit

loccur.el litable.el cards.el toki-pona.el wc-mode.el hide-lines.el
randomize-region.el tex-mode.el calendar.el caps-mode.el mal-mode.el
dash.el extract-examples.el greek-mode.el toki-pona-hack.el
loop-throwaway.el monthly-mode.el power-laws.el

"Research" - programmatic and idiosyncratic text mangling as well as
interaction with external programs

premixx.el contributing-users.el alternate-formulation.el general-utilities.el
run-through-top-100-users.el apm-analysis.el
more-encyclopedia-analysis.el forum-analysis-client.el
convert-to-tims-format.el run-through-top-100-users-variant1.el
emacs-spine.el minimal-arxana.el authors-uniq.el linkwords-long.el
more-forum-analysis.el seconds-converter.el apm-terms.el
computing-entropy.el linked-words.el forum-analysis.el
emacs-spine-revised.el filter-data.el linkwords.el
extract-math-terms.el emacs-parse-preamble.el git-log-extractor.el
corrections-analysis.el top-100.el encyclopedia-analysis.el
committers.el ess.el

"Work" - more text mangling (e.g. tab-separated columns instead of spreadsheets)

recombinant.el recombinant2.el delete-stopwords.el swap-two-columns.el
freebaseize.el unique-fields.el delete-first-column.el
delete-doubles.el extractor2.el extractor3.el
turn-freebase-data-into-rdf.el postprocess.el extractor.el
zip-two-buffers-together.el

"General usability" - useful compatibility layer
magit.el markdown-mode.el all.el php-mode.el

... and to continue with an extract from my ~/.emacs -- I'm finding
the calendar quite useful, but only after relatively *extensive*
customizations (copied below).

(require 'diary-lib)
(require 'calendar)

(setq calendar-view-diary-initially-flag t
      ;; «This variable does not affect the diary display with the `d'
      ;; command from the calendar; in that case, the prefix argument
      ;; controls the number of days of diary entries displayed.»
      ;; -- description of `diary-number-of-entries'
      diary-number-of-entries 7)

;;; DIARY bindings
;; This lets you close the diary and redisplay changes
(define-key diary-mode-map (kbd "C-c C-c") '(lambda () (interactive)
                                              (widen)
                                              (quit-window)
                                              (calendar)))

(define-key diary-mode-map (kbd "C-c C-d") '(lambda () (interactive)
                                              (goto-char (line-end-position))
                                              (insert " DONE")
                                              ))

(define-key diary-mode-map (kbd "C-c C-w") '(lambda () (interactive)
                                              (widen)
                                              ))

(define-key diary-mode-map (kbd "C-o") '(lambda () (interactive)
                                          (goto-char (line-end-position))
                                          (open-line 1)
                                          (forward-line 1)
                                          (insert "  ")))

(define-key diary-mode-map (kbd "C-o") '(lambda () (interactive)
                                          (goto-char (line-end-position))
                                          (open-line 1)
                                          (forward-line 1)
                                          (insert "  ")))

;;; CALENDAR bindings
;; This lets you insert entries into the diary directly from the
;; calendar in a nicer way than the usual i-d command, since it
;; collates with previously existing entries, by date.
(define-key calendar-mode-map "ie"
  (lambda () (interactive)
    (let ((date (calendar-date-string (calendar-cursor-to-date t) t t)))
      (other-window 1)
      (find-file diary-file)
      (widen)
      (goto-char (point-min))
      (if (search-forward date nil t)
          (when (search-forward-regexp "^[A-Z]" nil t)
            (backward-char 1)
            (insert "  \n")
            (backward-char 1))
        (goto-char (point-max))
        (backward-char 1)
        (if (looking-at "\n")
            (progn (forward-char)
                   (insert (concat date "\n  ")))
          (forward-char)
          (insert (concat "\n" date "\n  ")))))))

;;; DIARY DISPLAY binding
;; This lets you edit specific entries from the fancy diary display
(add-hook 'diary-fancy-display-mode-hook
          '(lambda ()
             (local-set-key  (kbd "e")
                             '(lambda () (interactive)
                                (let (date)
                                  (if (looking-at (diary-fancy-date-pattern))
                                      (setq date (match-string 0))
                                    (re-search-backward
                                     (diary-fancy-date-pattern))
                                    (setq date (match-string 0)))
                                  (find-file "~/diary")
                                  (widen)
                                  (goto-char (point-min))
                                  ;; needs some coding improvements in
case matches aren't found
                                  (when (search-forward
(replace-regexp-in-string
                                                   "^[^ ]* \\(...\\)[^ ]* "
                                                   "\\1 "
                                                   date)
                                                  nil t)
                                  (let* ((beg (line-beginning-position))
                                         (next (search-forward-regexp
"^[A-Z]" nil t))
                                         (end (if next
                                                  (- next 1)
                                                (point-max))))
                                    (narrow-to-region beg end)
                                    (goto-char (point-min)))))))))

; The alternative is: diary-simple-display, that can be used
alternately see below
(setq diary-display-function 'diary-fancy-display)

(define-key calendar-mode-map "n" (lambda () (interactive)
                                    (let ((diary-display-function
'diary-simple-display)
                                          ;; Setting this explicitly
was important
                                          ;; to get around what
otherwise looked like a bug
                                          (diary-number-of-entries 1))
                                      (diary-view-entries))))

(add-hook 'today-visible-calendar-hook 'calendar-mark-today)

(add-hook 'diary-fancy-display-mode-hook
       '(lambda ()
              (alt-clean-equal-signs)))

(add-hook 'diary-fancy-display-mode-hook
          '(lambda () (setq selective-display 3
                            selective-display-ellipses nil)))

(defface calendar-tag-face
  '((t (:foreground "red" :weight bold)))
  "Used for tags in the calendar.")

(defface calendar-keyword-face
  '((t (:foreground "Cyan1" :weight bold)))
  "Used for super special keywords in the calendar.")

;; display org-like tags in the diary (four or more capital letters in a row)
(add-hook 'diary-fancy-display-mode-hook
           '(lambda () (font-lock-add-keywords
                        nil
                        '(("\\<[A-Z]\\{4,\\}\\>" . 'calendar-tag-face)))))

(add-hook 'diary-mode-hook
          '(lambda () (font-lock-add-keywords
                       nil
                       '(("\\<[A-Z]\\{4,\\}\\>" . 'calendar-tag-face)))))

(add-hook 'diary-fancy-display-mode-hook
           '(lambda () (font-lock-add-keywords
                        nil
                        '(("\\<\\(DONE\\)\\>" 1 'calendar-keyword-face
prepend)))))

(add-hook 'diary-mode-hook
          '(lambda () (font-lock-add-keywords
                       nil
                       '(("\\<\\(DONE\\)\\>" 1 'calendar-keyword-face
prepend)))))

(defun alt-clean-equal-signs ()
   "This function makes lines of = signs invisible."
   (goto-char (point-min))
   (let ((state buffer-read-only))
     (when state (setq buffer-read-only nil))
     (while (not (eobp))
       (search-forward-regexp "^=+$" nil 'move)
       (add-text-properties (match-beginning 0)
                        (match-end 0)
                '(invisible t)))
     (when state (setq buffer-read-only t))))

;; As far as I can tell, sorting doesn't actually work - is this a bug?
;; jac July 31, 2013
(add-hook 'diary-list-entries-hook 'diary-sort-entries t)
(setq diary-list-include-blanks t)

;;; Start it on load - but after thing are properly set up
(setq inhibit-startup-screen t)
(add-hook 'after-init-hook (lambda () (progn (calendar)
                                             (diary-mark-entries))))

(add-hook 'diary-list-entries-hook 'diary-include-other-diary-files)
; (add-hook 'diary-mark-entries-hook 'diary-mark-included-diary-files)

(defun calendar-view-all ()
  (interactive)
  (add-hook 'diary-mark-entries-hook 'diary-mark-included-diary-files)
  (save-window-excursion (find-file "~/diary")
                         (goto-char (point-min))
                         (insert "&"))
  (calendar)
  (remove-hook 'diary-mark-entries-hook 'diary-mark-included-diary-files)
  (save-window-excursion (find-file "~/diary")
                         (goto-char (point-min))
                         (delete-char 1)))

(setq diary-comment-start "¡")
(setq diary-comment-end "!")

(require 'appt)
(appt-activate 1)
;; See also: appt-warning-time-regexp
(setq appt-message-warning-time 10)
(setq appt-display-format 'echo)
(setq appt-display-mode-line t)

Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[Emanuel Berg]

Jorge <1gato0a@gmail.com> writes:

> What is Emacs really good for?

Everything that has to do with typing: writing, and programming.

> Can you manage your information (todo, grocery list, etc.) and
> sync with a smartphone?  If you can't sync with a smartphone,
> how do you manage the grocery list?

Jorge, there is nothing intelligent or "smart" with hammering on a
device to achieve something that has been done without effort, and
without that device for a hundred years, or more.

> Is it a good calendar?  Can you easily collaborate with
> colleagues who use Google Calendar?

This integration hysteria with one billion totally useless gadgets
has become a total neurosis. It is just a capitalist ploy to make
you buy things. Grown men act like kids in a sweet shot. I can't
stand it. Ask: does this work *for me*? If it doesn't, can I *make
it work, by outworking the opposition*, or should I ditch it
completely? Think for yourself, goddammit! I don't care one bit
what junk other people use, because I trust my own judgement.

I can't say I see any reason to use Emacs as calendar. There are
no advantages compared to having a minimal book pocket calendar in
your jeans, everywhere you go. The only advantage I can think of
is that you can setup your friends' birthdays and such, and you
don't have to do it every year.

> Is it a good email reader?

There are several possible ways to use Emacs to both send and read
mail, and to access Usenet. I use the plain message mode to send
mail, witch is great, as it is accessible with M-x, from anywhere
in Emacs; all the familiar shortcuts from Emacs are there; and,
what you don't like, you can setup/extend yourself with Elisp. To
send Usenet posts, the same Emacs mode is applied. To read Usenet
posts, I use Gnus (the same advantages that I mention for the
message mode applies, for Gnus, and for all Emacs, basically) --
you can check out [1] or gnu.emacs.gnus for more on Gnus. To
*read* mail, I use rmail (not the same as the legacy shell tool).

To write, and receive, emails in Emacs has improved my life
quality beyond belief. Before I set it up, those web GUIs were
killing me, my eyes, and fingers. Now, writing and reading mails
is one of the day's highlights. If you wish to try rmail with a
minimal effort, mail me, and I'll send you a configuration file
that'll have you up and running instantly.

> Does it work with gmail?

It doesn't have anything to do with gmail. It is much better to
have a SW client for mails. That way, you can apply all the CLI
text processing tools -- not only search, but everything else you
never thought of, as you never *could* with a web GUI -- and those
tools operate *directly on the material*.

Only (minor) problem, and disadvantage, is you need to do backups
now and then so not to loose your archive in case your system for
whatever reason has a permanent failure.

> Is Emacs adapting well to the changing computing landscape?

The computer landscape doesn't change that much. It is still the
same Lisp, C, HTML, TCP/IP, etc. It doesn't change with the
editors either. All programmers use either Emacs or vim.

[1] http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/gnus/index.html

Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[Rustom Mody]

On Monday, August 12, 2013 10:35:18 PM UTC+5:30, Jorge wrote:
> 
> What is Emacs really good for?  Is it a good personal information manager?
> Can you manage your information (todo, grocery list, etc.) and sync with a
> smartphone?

This collection of questions suggests that you look at orgmode http://orgmode.org/  which is really suited to exactly this kind of activity. 
After youve looked around and played with it for a day or two, ask this on the org mailing list -- preferably in more specific form. Org-mode is probably the single biggest killer-app in emacs-land today; its certainly making more converts of people who would otherwise run miles from anything emacs-ish and has even spawned a vi clone -- vimorganizer


> If you can't sync with a smartphone, how do you manage the
> grocery list?

Lookup mobileorg 
And see http://swaroopch.com/2013/01/16/orgmode/

Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[Dan Espen]

Jorge <1gato0a@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi.  What are the best uses of Emacs?  I currently use it to compose emails,
> manage files, to edit LaTeX, and to edit source code and configuration files.
> But Emacs seems to be mediocre at viewing PDFs.  Evince has better search.
>
>   What is Emacs really good for?  Is it a good personal information manager?
> Can you manage your information (todo, grocery list, etc.) and sync with a
> smartphone?  If you can't sync with a smartphone, how do you manage the
> grocery list?
>
>   Is it a good calendar?  Can you easily collaborate with colleagues who use
> Google Calendar?
>
>   Is it a good email reader?  Does it work with gmail?

I pull my gmail account with fetchmail, then read with GNUS.

-- 
Dan Espen

Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[Filipp Gunbin]

On 13/08/2013 15:52 +0400, Dan Espen wrote:

> Jorge <1gato0a@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Hi.  What are the best uses of Emacs?  I currently use it to compose emails,
>> manage files, to edit LaTeX, and to edit source code and configuration files.
>> But Emacs seems to be mediocre at viewing PDFs.  Evince has better search.
>>
>>   What is Emacs really good for?  Is it a good personal information manager?
>> Can you manage your information (todo, grocery list, etc.) and sync with a
>> smartphone?  If you can't sync with a smartphone, how do you manage the
>> grocery list?
>>
>>   Is it a good calendar?  Can you easily collaborate with colleagues who use
>> Google Calendar?
>>
>>   Is it a good email reader?  Does it work with gmail?
>
> I pull my gmail account with fetchmail, then read with GNUS.

It's also possible to fetch mail via imap directly in Gnus, more on that
in "(gnus) Mail Sources" info node.  I switched to this method from
fetchmail.

Filipp

Re: What are Emacs best uses?

[Dan Espen]

Filipp Gunbin <fgunbin@fastmail.fm> writes:

> On 13/08/2013 15:52 +0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>
>> Jorge <1gato0a@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Hi.  What are the best uses of Emacs?  I currently use it to compose emails,
>>> manage files, to edit LaTeX, and to edit source code and configuration files.
>>> But Emacs seems to be mediocre at viewing PDFs.  Evince has better search.
>>>
>>>   What is Emacs really good for?  Is it a good personal information manager?
>>> Can you manage your information (todo, grocery list, etc.) and sync with a
>>> smartphone?  If you can't sync with a smartphone, how do you manage the
>>> grocery list?
>>>
>>>   Is it a good calendar?  Can you easily collaborate with colleagues who use
>>> Google Calendar?
>>>
>>>   Is it a good email reader?  Does it work with gmail?
>>
>> I pull my gmail account with fetchmail, then read with GNUS.
>
> It's also possible to fetch mail via imap directly in Gnus, more on that
> in "(gnus) Mail Sources" info node.  I switched to this method from
> fetchmail.

The advantage I get from fetchmail is that I fetch from multiple sources
into /var/mail/user then a biff program notices the file size being
non-zero and it lights up the scroll lock LED.

I can tell if I have mail when passing by my home office.

-- 
Dan Espen