From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Gavin Smith Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.texinfo.bugs,gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: eshell manual: texinfo question Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 17:53:03 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87h8d74bbj.fsf@len.workgroup> <960EDB66-A330-4EF6-A022-701B3DB6297B@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="111150"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: help-gnu-emacs , bug-texinfo@gnu.org To: Jean-Christophe Helary , Gregor Zattler Original-X-From: bug-texinfo-bounces+gnu-bug-texinfo2=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 14 19:10:08 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: gnu-bug-texinfo2@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1guLSa-000Skp-50 for gnu-bug-texinfo2@m.gmane.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 19:10:08 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52711 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1guLSZ-0004Q8-2E for gnu-bug-texinfo2@m.gmane.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 13:10:07 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39548) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1guLPM-0001Mm-0r for bug-texinfo@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 13:06:51 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1guLCA-0007HW-Po for bug-texinfo@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 12:53:11 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-it1-x12d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::12d]:38654) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1guLC6-0007F1-Rj; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 12:53:06 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-it1-x12d.google.com with SMTP id l66so6354187itg.3; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 09:53:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=DotMDEmV7/+t+MBe5b0ubhHH46tHBWRkZ0NOGGouyNk=; b=kUgDWom9xEZNl9z9gjWWVjn6cuqPmwt3gMJ8zdbG9bAQd+enWVlrOwsJtwU5W0bjSC IA0QfNGPbD5tVRoQwq/7qoLaCUBtLKMuA+oX+lrGiN21+SfXVzy9ZUpY7Ku7qJh5X2D/ zkKB4JQfwCNa/YZS6pJ1tPK39odFb8r3KcYbgoYB0tHlawR7Lz2jRthmO9khrtj2QH0c fAq31BRdP4EKFCuyicDYBcuUm7g5QMfD96IykgYu1XA0vuUmyh7TWhKNGcGWDaFMqZ5C nTGA0Fz8rCc5mjnkLtM9hti8c3CmxSeSLcdy7RFqseGdjjg10sqd+oDweXvalVlIZ0D9 a+/w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=DotMDEmV7/+t+MBe5b0ubhHH46tHBWRkZ0NOGGouyNk=; b=fqYU9ekm5Bi0zhf+kuOzhCl4+q0fkpxXgsy+UM1vywJtTDXAGUD+xXTChswKnGF8NX plNFN40QEItgnoQ89aEUidy3h/IVladU1A0II1ANM1mQUEkMmwSn8loxF99EaLXba1ym YyzRqszMzxIzNEJJ3kOgrcuk2lOkeTPCDXfG+OANAPi0xbxcXi/yRhLOhHv5BsU347o+ e+3avq3O64uqXiitovdXZLWAZ/1X0i1A927eQjMWihnR4GEBsb7R45Fd9n4WbAvAkpHG yUh2i28JOVM8Gy6+FPA2KS43KMFJxb0O85SQ5sP75ei+gQtvPVfUtdOxVDR/PguTkozf ALtA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuZV9HxiZwsgx5zTFJipTg2SDQ2CjTcd87uHQFf8JybTuWl2Cz26 RWw/15ignkdPwdoEAD1SwrACB3hZWhUgnZoUIMQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IZ9ciMJWVBRBVSPA2Ax+1+CBMnZGRYjWmoCl/2zQOW701wok2LUZkYDj5wjyWeTlZWHAI8s+TtEDu2RxdhUz8g= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:8b56:: with SMTP id c22mr3598216iot.164.1550166784086; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 09:53:04 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 2002:a02:454a:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 09:53:03 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::12d X-BeenThere: bug-texinfo@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Bug reports for the GNU Texinfo documentation system List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-texinfo-bounces+gnu-bug-texinfo2=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-texinfo" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.texinfo.bugs:9608 gmane.emacs.help:119408 Archived-At: On 2/14/19, Gavin Smith wrote: >>> With makeinfo version 6.3 this renders nicely in html: >>> >>> but not so nice in pdf: >>> >>> and not in info: >>> > > In the forwarded email, these images were not present, so we can't see > what the problem is. (I changing the mailing list to one which is more > read.) > > The pdf output is the Texinfo project's problem, but how the output > appears in Emacs Info is very likely the Emacs project's problem. > I went looking and found https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2019-02/msg00206.html. Basically, cross-references in PDF have to be "heavier" than in HTML and Info because they have to be meaningful when printed on paper. It looks like the Emacs handling of the "*note" and "*Note" strings in the Info viewer could be improved. If doing this kind of hiding or transforming text in Info files, "*Note" should always be converted to "See", but "*note" is usually best hidden. The manual author has the option of writing "see @ref{Node}" (yielding "see *note Node::") if they want to indicate that there should be a "see" there. IIRC the only time when "*note" is changed to "see" is when it is inside parentheses, as "(@pxref{Node})" (yielding "(*note Node::)") is a very common idiom. There is no simple way I know of to indicate that a bare cross-reference (without "see") should occur within parentheses.