From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Susam Pal Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [NonGNU ELPA] New package: devil Date: Sat, 13 May 2023 10:05:32 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87ttwjbfqq.fsf@gmail.com> <83y1lv5qe9.fsf@gnu.org> <87ednkaeqp.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="8954"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Philip Kaludercic To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat May 13 11:07:06 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pxlDV-000285-DP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 13 May 2023 11:07:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pxlCk-0002Tw-4g; Sat, 13 May 2023 05:06:18 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pxlCf-0002TE-EZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 13 May 2023 05:06:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yb1-xb2a.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2a]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pxlCd-0006pa-Og for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 13 May 2023 05:06:13 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-yb1-xb2a.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-b9daef8681fso9277996276.1 for ; Sat, 13 May 2023 02:06:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1683968769; x=1686560769; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=/1zmrRKZytmOCnIsfdHzJAS/wHGd/L8yDptQWuBswao=; b=Av8tyEcwYMvn3Q0KMG+Ukdv/ra4IfmhqjCbpxRphz/rovxG4pCKOQeskHR52/qmCFH Y+kV2E8ZKAkx5aCFJs3jCsrkEOuvL0HcJgdfHxwOwywpFICs92mEeI5OquwSnTT3H1Io WQwP143ou37qchYonOD1af8bi0LZBWFB8xt/KqKlpE5utRcAF3cAdSyvPeqbVOfDV7Lh 67cgEKqfnu3ddtUp0h8ZzbMQE0ebv1/MA3MpqtKm4eUfF4Bq+kR+r2BLMkAMZJJq3cOp JNApAJHQSZh6Ix6gqGvW4I0Ob8y8i7pULT0Np4xt2wMPUZnQ+EJQ6FuIV3zPky7V6o05 t8wg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1683968769; x=1686560769; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=/1zmrRKZytmOCnIsfdHzJAS/wHGd/L8yDptQWuBswao=; b=NWCZXY3XLN/szks8o6wRUp5uEPs2iINFZ/nsrKE4erZK9wJA5WtVjPeyLghWtWNF+k OAHfJvwgZMENiVrvAV7t3M/SWuYxKuGXMXDVKi+LBnuXU3qFf+YE6qBnHcOZ/DMP8ZCU QgGTWPKm2Ks4EPtLs43olTV7pweHoo1+mWbEfzUGsbxm3Rg4jWoiWwjHunhYiMmB/gCH Wejb1kOn/cea0bA/UBnDCIbZEtMPxfDLHzkbBQdBjkKAQ0xV5+JmpUmlt7sh1dkLL1+X y39StG1ncNBmpMsi4ker8ABg0KEmgzU8JpRN0+yn7vFXz4CPG+Hj9RFhiWdkWalpppla pnpw== X-Gm-Message-State: AC+VfDzRQID9WQXWMfCyIZ4SRgGXdWAOrQqslHKhKU4mlfUJcnE4vng+ dPlI+4qkfthMy+HHQfHfb8hjKeWAvEtmxnbH6WaqlCoO5F4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ4GQ/KqfgOgU+jY+OIlu4+JN5hNr5AgIm+DNd5ymAQvH7RfV9Yk0tyUAg1eOusVQwgbhF17EXM/Q5PHQg+DFjU= X-Received: by 2002:a25:38c:0:b0:b8f:5340:b052 with SMTP id 134-20020a25038c000000b00b8f5340b052mr26362051ybd.15.1683968768951; Sat, 13 May 2023 02:06:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87ednkaeqp.fsf@posteo.net> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2a; envelope-from=susam.pal@gmail.com; helo=mail-yb1-xb2a.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:306102 Archived-At: Philip Kaludercic wrote: > > Jim Porter writes: > > > On 5/10/2023 11:33 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> Please reconsider, I think this name is very unfortunate, because it > >> gives users no clue whatsoever about the package's purpose. > > > > How about something like "devil-keys"? That should make it clear that > > the package has something to do with keys. It doesn't tell exactly > > what it *does* with those keys, but I think a more-detailed > > description belongs in the package description or the manual. > > > > Within the package itself, I think it would be fine to refer to it as > > "Devil" (without the "-keys"), since once you're looking at the > > package in detail, the "keys" hint isn't needed anymore. > > I think this is a nice idea, and a good compromise. I worry that choosing "devil-keys" as the package identifier is going to make the identifier inconsistent with how Devil is packaged in MELPA. The instructions to install Devil are going to become more complicated than they need to be with differing instructions for MELPA and NonGNU ELPA. I am not convinced that a meaningful name is necessary for this package. Consider the popular package meow. It is a fairly recent package that was created in 2020 and added in December 2022. It exists with the name "meow" in NonGNU ELPA. People who do not know about it of course do not know about it. But people who do know about it do not get confused about what it does. I doubt anyone is going to stumble upon these packages merely due to a meaningful name. At minimum, one is going to run M-x package-list-packages RET and search the buffer for strings like "modal", "key", etc. But more typically, people encounter these packages via recommendations from other community members. People learn about packages like this in some context where the context makes it clear what these packages do. In general, I do not think packages with quirky names or names unrelated to the purpose of the package is a problem. On the other hand, I feel, the more the merrier! At the same time, I do acknowledge that opinions on this matter differ. Devil is a package created as a result of a whimsical idea and I think the whimsical name is befitting. In my humble opinion, an additional suffix like "-keys" does not really add much. One still has to read the package description to understand what it does. However adding this suffix does take away something. It takes away simplicity, elegance, and consistency. It introduces inconsistency between the package identifier and the package name. It introduces inconsistency between NonGNU ELPA and MELPA. I believe that using "devil" as both the package identifier and name, combined with the updated package description mentioning its purpose as a key sequence translation package does provide sufficient clarity for anyone browsing the package list. I would like to thank everyone who has generously invested their time and contributed to this discussion. Despite differing opinions, I wanted to take a moment to express my thoughts on the matter.