From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: PJ Weisberg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Issues with emacs Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 08:49:24 -0700 Message-ID: References: <87bokbb4zw.fsf@gnu.org> <83086e1d-d66a-4e0c-95a7-92d10a6de7e7@f8g2000pbf.googlegroups.com> <87r4t3krun.fsf@friendface.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1340812195 18318 80.91.229.3 (27 Jun 2012 15:49:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 15:49:55 +0000 (UTC) Cc: notbob , "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" To: "Ludwig, Mark" Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 27 17:49:53 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SjuV1-00077M-4s for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 17:49:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42727 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SjuV1-0000zP-6q for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 11:49:47 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:59206) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SjuUr-0000zH-C4 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 11:49:42 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SjuUh-0007Lp-Q8 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 11:49:36 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ey0-f169.google.com ([209.85.215.169]:39718) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SjuUh-0007Kw-HX for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 11:49:27 -0400 Original-Received: by eaan1 with SMTP id n1so529164eaa.0 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 08:49:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=mrqoQsDMsD98pZQCn1r/gY/kow4GnWhmP7RuQ8X+iKI=; b=E12tX6Og8RP1J0B72aoIKIxrKJ+CAs8tL0i6xrfINxKkI8CqBVxInZ7sxhQSwWQtnm 6od7yJwT9b8+P73A12hP5IeXmqizwLskJ7aU6i+9TJwqi+EWbRnkTVmnoglDTUPYakEd tuuwU8VCk+kS4WpazCPL0WuLktkXZELNAKauxFWqIWMtfw91h+SZ45koLu20wbGb/1Ei t/i+vLpBtuJc1d/59v0Y+Lb4aQcgN4t+xYDi8z/ixa34REe0EQn+nnxnZCio6MKCwXT8 s7e14Dtbr00LQkxPLfWEaRTX5eZZLZvStlLXbVE/kZHGSIYSnUUDuUApSCnMU+GPsC11 BTsg== Original-Received: by 10.152.148.170 with SMTP id tt10mr21055635lab.48.1340812164633; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 08:49:24 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.112.5.102 with HTTP; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 08:49:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Google-Sender-Auth: Gqu0FLdTyv9rYCC5j7mUxSbpZyU X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 209.85.215.169 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:85518 Archived-At: On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 12:49 PM, Ludwig, Mark wr= ote: >> From: notbob >> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:28 PM >> To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org >> Subject: Re: Issues with emacs >> >> I realize emacs would be much more useful if I was a programmer, >> particularly a lisp programmer, but I'm not. > > This summarizes the split among the Emacs user community that I see in th= is discussion thread. =A0Those of us who are programmer types are probably = a lot happier with Emacs as it is (and as it has been since its start many = decades ago) than those who aren't programmer types. =A0Partly it's mindset= , but also gets to depth of knowledge about how to use the tool -- and how = to change what it does/how it works. http://notinventedhe.re/on/2010-1-18 http://notinventedhe.re/on/2010-1-19 http://notinventedhe.re/on/2010-1-20 http://notinventedhe.re/on/2010-1-28 Someone in this thread mentioned the M-< and M-> keys to go to the beginning and end of the buffer. I never knew about those, but I wrote my own command bound to C-e that goes to the end of the line when invoked once, then to the end of the buffer if invoked twice in a row*. And I was very happy with the result. I use IDEs that provide more functionality, but I'm always annoyed when I want to redefine a command and I can't. I understand that this is very atypical of today's computer user, but I still have difficulty putting myself into the mindset of someone who isn't even interested in learning how to modify a program's behavior. *The C-a version might need to be tapped three times to go to the beginning of the buffer, because it makes a stop at the first non-whitespace character on the line with the first tap. > Regarding bloat, an analogy: if all you ever need is one specific knife b= lade, a Swiss Army Knife will seem to have a lot of bloat. http://www.swisstechtools.com/proddetail.aspx?pid=3D5 It's about the size of a small knife, but it's also a screwdriver and a bottle opener and fits nicely on my key chain (a bit bigger than my house key and much smaller than my car key). My point is that you can have lots of features and as long as they stay hidden and don't take up much space when you're not using them, they cost nothing. I've never used the bottle opener, but I have no desire to get rid of it, and maybe some day I'll need to open a bottle. I've never used Gnus, but it's never gotten in my way either.