From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: John Yates Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "Point" vs. "cursor" in documentation Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2018 08:13:22 -0400 Message-ID: References: <037e45ba-ae4d-7aa7-bfa2-dd6a27aaff26@disroot.org> <863C33CF-82A6-43C3-8EE3-2082096C338B@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1530706329 15122 195.159.176.226 (4 Jul 2018 12:12:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2018 12:12:09 +0000 (UTC) Cc: brandelune@gmail.com, Drew Adams , Emacs developers To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 04 14:12:04 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fagdd-0003jk-H2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 04 Jul 2018 14:12:01 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46720 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fagfk-0006jA-LL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 04 Jul 2018 08:14:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39079) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fagfC-0006if-NV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jul 2018 08:13:39 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fagfB-0007VU-LG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jul 2018 08:13:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yw0-f179.google.com ([209.85.161.179]:41169) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fagf7-0007UL-Vm; Wed, 04 Jul 2018 08:13:34 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-yw0-f179.google.com with SMTP id j5-v6so1853817ywe.8; Wed, 04 Jul 2018 05:13:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Nif/i9/OqBP4xjb0KBsg8aPcV/YUdtj9G7D8Gfkbexw=; b=R8KEZ2ijB9sGImk4oTqEXoUQcJzza9TlU2Lo1lbJC8DyZrD0u6k2Z4JZ0T4BFTGu73 tOjQwH2H1ak+6ZIN1WJVWYYKv3HUzhU1p4sPxK+UtWS9mWlaisxPU/9dGmsqW5zXcB3g G/P4CKXr6z5YD9++hN2/5ngn/eB2qYTiFFtvtpD8vXrB+ijFYFk7dE3H6DfF7AxlioFD ewiSo9rfsGc76xzAryuAnMCGGQpygc135jPbWelrgHG72giPAXgm2r0ST8PaXiHelVZl FY3u5Q4sBEYX0ZoJkjisSN7l+aekdDnEWrmVmuWfvpacZ915TRMem+axnv71bmf44ps5 jXxg== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E0dtu1+Cbf5eop8W7rDUq/jfuHUoD/kcqSQhgGl06GoOCW22XVJ pWCCf3AtHk15I6EzeSxZROfgfzonP9s4grCPWzAbhg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpd3qk7Qd4T1sgR1lyO3I78kfLG3/THnWtFyvJ6iKFjvYOK6/g5WBrPVOXLKMkgS890PsSHq6716D4fEK73+52g= X-Received: by 2002:a81:128f:: with SMTP id 137-v6mr759822yws.320.1530706413142; Wed, 04 Jul 2018 05:13:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 209.85.161.179 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:226932 Archived-At: On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 7:04 PM Richard Stallman wrote: > ITS, the Incompatible Timesharing System, was not a text editor. > Its text editor was TECO -- the very same TECO on top of which > EMACS was implemented. Yes, I am aware that ITS was an OS, not an editor. Similarly the PDP-1 was a machine with a separate timesharing system (did it have a name?) and not an editor. I had no exposure to ITS and so have no knowledge of its history or the tools that it offered. Was TECO truly its first editor? I was exposed to the PDP-1 enough to play spacewar. I recall that prior to TECO it had an editor named Expensive Typewriter. I never got to use that editor. My reference to ITS and the PDP-1 was merely a conjecture that if TECO did not originate the concept of point then it likely inherited it from an early editor, most likely an editor running on one of those two systems. Some googling turned up this article in which Dan Murphy mentions Expensive Typewriter and explains that TECO originated on the PDP-1: http://tenex.opost.com/anhc-31-4-anec.pdf I also tracked down an Expensive Typewriter "manual": http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/text/DEC/pdp-1/DEC.pdp_1.1972.102650079.pdf Reading that manual I can clearly see how Expensive Typewriter gave rise to TECO. That said ET was entirely line-oriented. I conclude that TECO first gave us the point concept and terminology. /john