From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Yates Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: clang vs free software Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:34:01 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87fvqtg02v.fsf@flea.lifelogs.com> <87haa1litl.fsf@yandex.ru> <87y53czx7e.fsf@yandex.ru> <87bo08bivm.fsf_-_@flea.lifelogs.com> <87sitkzahs.fsf@yandex.ru> <52D7DAAB.2070709@yandex.ru> <52D81960.2080408@yandex.ru> <52DA8C17.4080707@yandex.ru> <52DC00E5.3020803@yandex.ru> <52DC6A26.3020003@yandex.ru> <87k3dv9z85.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87eh439w1n.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87ha8yqvup.fsf@engster.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e01494602d63f7204f07cbc67 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1390318449 28202 80.91.229.3 (21 Jan 2014 15:34:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 15:34:09 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Stefan Monnier , David Engster , Emacs developers To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 21 16:34:17 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W5dLD-0006KA-29 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 21 Jan 2014 16:34:15 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59057 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W5dLC-0001YP-J3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:34:14 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35247) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W5dL8-0001XP-Pr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:34:12 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W5dL7-0007uo-99 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:34:10 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-we0-x22b.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c03::22b]:37175) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W5dL1-0007tF-0Q; Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:34:03 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-we0-f171.google.com with SMTP id w61so8065702wes.2 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2014 07:34:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=RTM28xKbD7AXXn0Mt3YCxnl/YaWX/duAi5esHATKfpI=; b=zUvOaemGSJQaMKTyQldkxPscU+aKK4h/eJao1nZjR1EQwfsNsTdufMharHI8aOuefz U7xbB0Q32N/xrm+RCwLjlfrgOCiUDrPKo73sysL9W0ZaaJR58Ub8xlK91KFXFUCkejAH 8c21mgDSppInxF8LvTGL1TjNGfe79g7nxD2WDjhkS5C736RLSCgFutTQh6jKYO50430g tk8Gbq4EVDaJW5Yl5QNz5/n3l0iFkbv3pWiv7tFl0L1+N/mQ9FARwQl0PQv6gAvkfcVt p7TFk44Va2r0dMNV/Ik0MB8+x9nmk1LSskc9xH6RJh2rLjleq0xgHvKlj2XZZO1ESxkF IDDw== X-Received: by 10.194.92.7 with SMTP id ci7mr2384718wjb.58.1390318441609; Tue, 21 Jan 2014 07:34:01 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.194.48.110 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Jan 2014 07:34:01 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Google-Sender-Auth: 0MqeAtTWEvzm1o3bZYj0mtKNiHk X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c03::22b X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:168832 Archived-At: --089e01494602d63f7204f07cbc67 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 9:42 AM, Richard Stallman wrote: > Fine, but what's the policy now regarding features that require an > installed clang to work; can they be merged to Emacs proper or not? > > Emacs (and all GNU packages involving C code) should be designed to > work best with GCC. There should be nothing to encourage users not to > use our compiler. Richard, That really does not answer David's question. If you read it carefully he called out "features that require an installed clang to work". That is the crux of the tension here. While the most obvious manifestation of clang is as a C/C++ compiler very similar to gcc it is also much more. That is because it is architected as suite of libraries intended to be integrated into more environments than just a compiler: http://clang.llvm.org/features.html#libraryarch http://clang.llvm.org/features.html#ideintegration Tooling for analyzing and manipulating C/C++ is simply a space that gcc is not addressing. Based on its architecture it likely never will. There exist now various packages integrating emacs will elements of clang. These packages are not supporting clang as alternative compiler. Rather by exploiting clang interfaces that have no gcc analog they offer exciting IDE-like features. /john --089e01494602d63f7204f07cbc67 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On T= ue, Jan 21, 2014 at 9:42 AM, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote:=
=A0 =A0 Fine, but what's the policy now regarding features that require= an
=A0 =A0 installed clang to work; can they be merged to Emacs proper or not?=

Emacs (and all GNU packages involving C code) should be designed to
work best with GCC. =A0There should be nothing to encourage users not to use our compiler.

Richard,

That really does not answer David's question. =A0If you read i= t carefully he called out "features that require an installed clang to= work". =A0That is the crux of the tension here. =A0While the most obv= ious manifestation of clang is as a C/C++ compiler very similar to gcc it i= s also much more. =A0That is because it is architected as suite of librarie= s intended to be integrated into more environments than just a compiler:


Tooling for analyzing and manipulating C/C++ is s= imply a space that gcc is not addressing. =A0Based on its architecture it l= ikely never will.

There exist now various packages= integrating emacs will elements of clang. =A0These packages are not suppor= ting clang as alternative compiler. =A0Rather by exploiting clang interface= s that have no gcc analog they offer exciting IDE-like features.

/john
=A0
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