From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Yates Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs as word processor Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:07:52 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87vbzqfgd6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83vbzkcx20.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b45105e6a0ba704ebc637c2 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1385136483 7778 80.91.229.3 (22 Nov 2013 16:08:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 16:08:03 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Richard Stallman , Emacs developers , Stefan Monnier , ttn@gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams To: Yuri Khan Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 22 17:08:08 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VjtH6-0000hO-5p for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 17:08:08 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39689 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VjtH5-0004cF-MJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:08:07 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57800) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VjtH2-0004c9-5R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:08:05 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VjtH0-0005OP-Tw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:08:04 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-wg0-x234.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c00::234]:42760) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VjtGs-0005Ng-8L; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:07:54 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-wg0-f52.google.com with SMTP id x13so1347962wgg.19 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 08:07:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=W43S5YLrAB+iwyywVVXgHtMYq63OvGxWmrFRHCzc4qw=; b=wxkv9fYdy92r7sscWTWQAvQUmmXA/OqO0WcB+TMeZpPcEqXMlr6ez5CtkE2HTwwvA0 lW+eHw53jGe8VRKsCIER8WOddADwnQlesuqy1ugSxqMYKvROr9FPWrMGM5UNOiTjAc4h s1fNCa5Wz6kVJNL6X1dd/EoQO5YB+lOVMJ4TZxHFz76ce6GORPzGUla2BIbJm62G3wmy F5Dthu1Wj2E1qAtdEA20wRxI0Jf64S9iToY6OAPK9DFe+86udnzc2IEidQQOCngIFQae s/eNS40ENMC2pbZ5DY07WHDA+5jEzmfa5RNJypKi2nz7SFZ+/KFILgZUf5RmrsSiLvEE /FeA== X-Received: by 10.194.11.67 with SMTP id o3mr11409153wjb.0.1385136472589; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 08:07:52 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.194.201.195 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 08:07:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Google-Sender-Auth: 37LFVpti01pifSg-BMlCWXSzH4o X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c00::234 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:165569 Archived-At: --047d7b45105e6a0ba704ebc637c2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Yuri Khan wrote: > On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 9:48 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Yes, and those, along with the buttons, > are a sure way to create an unmaintainable document. It is easy and > predictable at first and is fine if you only need to hack up a quick > page, print it out and not even bother to save it. But when writing > any kind of a long-lived document, direct formatting is a curse. > +100. I have often said that the one way to fix Word is to have all direct > formatting controls hidden by default, and only allow style-based > formatting. Again, +100. Even M$Word for a while has had both paragraph styles and character (arbitrary text range) styles. /john --047d7b45105e6a0ba704ebc637c2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On F= ri, Nov 22, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Yuri Khan <yuri.v.khan@gmail.com>= wrote:
On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 9:= 48 PM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org&g= t; wrote:

Yes, and those,= along with the <bold> <italic> <underline> buttons,
are a sure way to create an unmaintainable document. It is easy and
predictable at first and is fine if you only need to hack up a quick
page, print it out and not even bother to save it. But when writing
any kind of a long-lived document, direct formatting is a curse.

+100.

I have often said that the one way to fix Word is to have all direct
formatting controls hidden by default, and only allow style-based
formatting.

Again, +100.
=A0
Even M$Word for a while has had both paragraph styles and character (= arbitrary text range) styles.

/john

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