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From: John Yates <john@yates-sheets.org>
To: Emacs developers <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: First draft of the Emacs website
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2015 17:17:10 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAJnXXogPKXa-ORGmvBccOqNsu7-ZCTymDyLnZFD4znyhBAfyDA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <56604A9C.7080508@gmail.com>

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Who is your primary audience?  There is no point preaching to your choir.
 (Here your choir consists of you yourself, Emacs users and Lisp fans.)

I would argue that the site should be focused on persuading those who know
little or nothing about Emacs to give it a try.  Such a person is likely to
be someone who has been weened on a combination of GUI and command-line
tools.  (My assumption is that anyone who does not already have some
exposure to the command-line is a lost cause, but I would be happy to be
corrected.)

Do not pitch as virtues aspects that a newbie most likely will perceive as
a barrier to entry:
* Hence any mention of Lisp seems inappropriate.  We had better hope that
Emacs' Out-Of-Box impression is good enough to motivate - in time - an
interest in Lisp, rather than presume it.  Even more off-putting are the
fine points of various Lisp dialects and Lisp extensions.
* Displaying Lisp code is probably not a great "come-on".
* The parenthetical "M-x list-packages" makes sense only to someone already
familiar with Emacs.

Do not pitch as virtues packages that actually compare poorly to the
competition:
* Notably Emacs' support for gdb pales before most IDEs.
* Newbies likely have a long, long road to travel before they will ever
consider discarding their current GUI / WYSIWYG / web-based productivity
tools for Emacs' text-only calendar, mail project planning packages.

Style:
* Generally brevity is a virtue.  The text below the circular icons tends
to be wordy.  It feels like you are trying to persuade me by overwhelming
me via "featuritis".
* Excessive use of 'including'.
* "Content-sensitive editing modes, including syntax coloring, for a
variety of file types including plain text, source code, and HTML."
(Awkward and - with two use of 'including' - hard to parse. What is a
'mode' to a newbie?)
* "Complete built-in documentation, including a tutorial for new users."
 (Those are two separate items.)
* "Full Unicode support for nearly all human languages and their scripts."
(Language support is a bit of a stretch.  The distinction between language
and script is unnecessarily technical.  I would mention support for editing
of bi-directional text and support for additional encodings beyond Unicode
(e.g. DOS code pages, ISO-8859-*, etc).)
* "Highly customizable, using Emacs Lisp code or a graphical interface."
 (A casual reader might take that as claiming we have a configuration GUI.
Customize is really little more than a text-based forms package.  It is
better than nothing but I would avoid over-selling it.)

/john

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  reply	other threads:[~2015-12-03 22:17 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 113+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-11-28 23:29 First draft of the Emacs website Nicolas Petton
2015-11-28 23:51 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2015-11-29  0:03 ` Daniel Pimentel
2015-11-29  1:02 ` Xue Fuqiao
2015-11-29  1:26   ` Nicolas Petton
2015-11-29  2:19     ` Alex Dunn
2015-11-29  3:31       ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2015-11-29  5:42         ` Random832
2015-11-29  8:15           ` David Caldwell
2015-11-29 14:25             ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-30 17:49             ` Emacs for Mac OS X bundle (was: First draft of the Emacs website) John Wiegley
2015-11-30 20:02               ` Emacs for Mac OS X bundle David Caldwell
2015-12-01  0:15                 ` Xue Fuqiao
2015-12-01  1:40                   ` David Caldwell
2015-11-30  0:02     ` First draft of the Emacs website Xue Fuqiao
2015-11-29  8:06 ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-11-29 10:27   ` Zack Piper
2015-11-29 12:36     ` Rasmus
2015-11-29 12:58       ` Nicolas Petton
2015-11-29 14:00       ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-11-29 10:15 ` David Engster
2015-11-29 12:56   ` Nicolas Petton
2015-11-29 15:17 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-29 19:38   ` Nicolas Petton
2015-11-29 22:01     ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-29 22:11       ` Nicolas Petton
2015-11-29 16:21 ` Christopher Allan Webber
2015-11-29 19:39   ` Nicolas Petton
2015-11-29 21:45 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-11-29 22:11   ` Nicolas Petton
2015-11-30  0:04     ` Artur Malabarba
2015-11-30  1:29       ` Alex Dunn
2015-11-30  9:43         ` Artur Malabarba
2015-11-30 10:33           ` Dani Moncayo
2015-11-30 15:22             ` Drew Adams
2015-11-30 16:06   ` Nicolas Petton
2015-11-30 16:16     ` Yuri Khan
2015-11-30 16:23       ` Nicolas Petton
2015-12-01 14:37     ` Richard Stallman
2015-12-01 14:56       ` Nicolas Petton
2015-11-30 19:48 ` Milan Zamazal
2015-12-02 16:45   ` Drew Adams
2015-12-02 17:22     ` Nicolas Petton
2015-12-02 16:36 ` Random832
2015-12-02 17:12   ` Nicolas Petton
2015-12-02 18:07     ` Yuri Khan
2015-12-02 18:26       ` Nicolas Petton
2015-12-02 18:29       ` Nicolas Petton
2015-12-02 18:30         ` Yuri Khan
2015-12-02 23:47   ` Xue Fuqiao
2015-12-04  3:57     ` Random832
2015-12-04  5:17       ` License of the Emacs website (was: Re: First draft of the Emacs website) Chad Brown
2015-12-04  5:42         ` Random832
2015-12-05  0:19       ` First draft of the Emacs website Richard Stallman
2015-12-03 13:58 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2015-12-03 22:17   ` John Yates [this message]
2015-12-03 22:30     ` Nicolas Petton
2015-12-03 22:57     ` Drew Adams
2015-12-03 23:26       ` John Yates
2015-12-04  0:58         ` Drew Adams
2015-12-08 13:05           ` Valentijn
2015-12-08 15:09             ` Drew Adams
2015-12-08 15:21               ` Spencer Boucher
2015-12-08 16:08                 ` David Kastrup
2015-12-08 20:52                 ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-12-08 21:51                   ` Drew Adams
2015-12-08 21:58                     ` Drew Adams
2015-12-09 21:00                     ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-12-10  5:28                     ` Richard Stallman
2015-12-10  9:10                       ` David Kastrup
2015-12-10  5:27                   ` Richard Stallman
2015-12-10 16:13                     ` Python vs Lisp (followups to -tangents) Random832
2015-12-10 18:40                       ` Sam Steingold
2015-12-10 22:31                         ` Random832
2015-12-16 15:57                           ` Sam Steingold
2015-12-16 16:32                             ` Random832
2015-12-16 17:56                           ` Christopher Allan Webber
2015-12-09  6:06                 ` First draft of the Emacs website Richard Stallman
2015-12-04  6:06         ` David Kastrup
2015-12-04  9:37           ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-04  9:42             ` David Kastrup
2015-12-04 10:11               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-04 10:42                 ` Nicolas Petton
2015-12-04 10:44                 ` David Kastrup
2015-12-04 11:03                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-04 22:26                   ` Paul Eggert
2015-12-04 22:30                     ` David Kastrup
2015-12-04  8:42         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-03 23:59     ` Clément Pit--Claudel
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2015-12-02 12:47 H.Tsurumoto
2015-12-02 13:07 ` David Kastrup
2015-12-02 14:55   ` Random832
2015-12-02 15:16     ` David Kastrup
2015-12-02 15:39       ` Drew Adams
2015-12-02 15:42       ` Nicolas Petton
2015-12-02 15:53         ` David Kastrup
2015-12-02 16:07           ` Nicolas Petton
2015-12-02 15:55         ` Yuri Khan
2015-12-02 15:57           ` Nicolas Petton
2015-12-02 16:05             ` David Kastrup
2015-12-02 16:07             ` Yuri Khan
2015-12-02 16:08           ` Random832
2015-12-03  6:22         ` Richard Stallman
2015-12-03  9:29           ` Nicolas Petton
2015-12-03  9:59             ` Alexis
2015-12-03 10:51               ` Nicolas Petton
2015-12-04  5:22                 ` Richard Stallman
2015-12-04  9:07                   ` Nicolas Petton
2015-12-04  5:22             ` Richard Stallman
2015-12-04  9:36               ` Nicolas Petton
2015-12-03  6:21   ` Richard Stallman
2015-12-02 14:14 ` Nicolas Petton
2015-12-02 16:39   ` David Engster

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