From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Yates Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gitlab Migration Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2021 07:35:10 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87h7fcnmq0.fsf@posteo.net> <83tujbqg4j.fsf@gnu.org> <46353190-1190-495f-b15e-22980159b3ab@yandex.ru> <83y28mp0rb.fsf@gnu.org> <51a363db-fde7-791d-cf8d-98ac601d62ee@yandex.ru> <57ca4d78-2339-201d-edce-678c9b003a99@yandex.ru> <83bl5dsh8b.fsf@gnu.org> <8335qps8vs.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30236"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Philip Kaludercic , danflscr@gmail.com, Richard Stallman , Emacs developers , Stefan Monnier , Dmitry Gutov To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 01 13:39:27 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mLOaV-0007bb-F3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 01 Sep 2021 13:39:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42040 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mLOaS-0001ji-1M for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 01 Sep 2021 07:39:25 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52582) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mLOWd-0006w2-IC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Sep 2021 07:35:27 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ej1-f50.google.com ([209.85.218.50]:41923) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mLOWb-0002yp-R5; Wed, 01 Sep 2021 07:35:27 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ej1-f50.google.com with SMTP id t19so5890661ejr.8; Wed, 01 Sep 2021 04:35:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=xkLSIhbrde1NlsbwcjjfBtycIZw4CZcxvdfRV4dyPR0=; b=YS7QGy++3yYsleH4qOUOTM8ANTYeGJgjfxT9YFw34hkvWfmPUatZ5WZRGuJTnd+2RQ 6ZrvUZs9XH0eA0Ad9p9Y+iMPMEFsAGZLaZN/zEBSz9uG/EIZK4GSdHwSYs6vw53xMgfI cPsF17IVOoL2KCkyTIQkqK6RNVPnErG+afWvN2D556DhSjh8GTkRu8KKWk2CcpOG5xB0 WAPxww1u0EQkA56fz4+xbjujnDAHYJbhHcUOgg++rhb2zVcBULBB5xIY6f+bMyvj6IRs pgB9NHlF039LPgOXlPljbhkHe959klQaBXB9wi4q97/GocA736k2n/Gu2a816gC/D5nX IEAA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530I0pezvnB/XUjyAasohqF2/oaGC3uneFeRWr5/O53F7CJc2VuW 6+eW6gdLcIhGBpRYgM93/7O59t+2vrOyJsoZPQXV7RTf X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyOu7yNJYeUjv4Q11uUpxthpUqIwzuIPe0RtNApDkpxQLQx0QCACJ31HNpgAZL83XConmdwTM8xxE7vLUS7SGM= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:3745:: with SMTP id e5mr36488507ejc.400.1630496122566; Wed, 01 Sep 2021 04:35:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8335qps8vs.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.218.50; envelope-from=john.yates.sheets@gmail.com; helo=mail-ej1-f50.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -13 X-Spam_score: -1.4 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:273641 Archived-At: On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 3:37 PM Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Emacs is an old and _stable_ package. "Stable" means just that: > features burned into users' muscle memory don't just change every > weekend. At 70, I still count myself as an "early adopter". I am unlikely to accept having my world and habits disrupted every weekend. But with somewhat longer time scales (e.g. Ubuntu's six month and Android yearly cadences) I am quite comfortable. > So we do it slowly, cautiously, and preferably via opt-in > features, because we respect our users and their habits. Ah, but the model is opt-in to change, not opt-out. Thus opponents of change start off with an advantage and set the terms of debate. Other models are possible: * Long term releases with sunset dates * Previews of features that will become defaults with opt-out * ? Anyway, thank you, Eli, for your long, thoughtful reply and for your project leadership. /john