[RFC] C-c C-c in agenda

[RFC] C-c C-c in agenda

[Marco Wahl]

Hello community,

Off list I have politely been pointed to possibly have gone too far with
a recent commit to master.  Thanks for that.

To the issue:  With the current master branch C-c C-c disables column
view in the agenda.

For some days now C-c C-c disables column view in Org files.  This helps
me a bit and never got in my way.  And I thought it would be quite
natural and consistent to use this binding for the agenda too.

What do you think about all that?


Best regards,
-- 
Marco

Re: [RFC] C-c C-c in agenda

[Bastien]

Hi Marco and all,

Marco Wahl <marcowahlsoft@gmail.com> writes:

> Off list I have politely been pointed to possibly have gone too far with
> a recent commit to master.  Thanks for that.

Yes - someone I overlooked this addition, my bad.

> To the issue:  With the current master branch C-c C-c disables column
> view in the agenda.
>
> For some days now C-c C-c disables column view in Org files.  This helps
> me a bit and never got in my way.  And I thought it would be quite
> natural and consistent to use this binding for the agenda too.

I've now tested this and see how it can be useful, but having C-c C-c
perform this unique deactivation in agenda view seems unfinished.

I suggest C-c C-c can also call `org-agenda-set-tags' when the column
view is not activated.

Let's add this and test the new behavior of C-c C-c in agenda buffer
for a while to see how it fits to everyone's habits.

> What do you think about all that?

Thanks for bringing this issue back on the list,

-- 
 Bastien

Re: [RFC] C-c C-c in agenda

[Bastien]

Hi Marco,

Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> writes:

> I've now tested this and see how it can be useful, but having C-c C-c
> perform this unique deactivation in agenda view seems unfinished.

Also, when columns are activated in an agenda view, org-columns-map
already bind C-c C-c to org-columns-toggle-or-columns-quit, so C-c C-c
already deactivate the column view in agenda buffer.

Or do I miss something?

(I'm not sure what org-columns--toggle does, but that's another story.)

> I suggest C-c C-c can also call `org-agenda-set-tags' when the column
> view is not activated.

I just added this.

Thanks,

-- 
 Bastien

Re: [RFC] C-c C-c in agenda

[Marco Wahl]

Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> writes:

>> I've now tested this and see how it can be useful, but having C-c C-c
>> perform this unique deactivation in agenda view seems unfinished.
>
> Also, when columns are activated in an agenda view, org-columns-map
> already bind C-c C-c to org-columns-toggle-or-columns-quit, so C-c C-c
> already deactivate the column view in agenda buffer.
>
> Or do I miss something?

You miss the lines which have not been transformed into columns by
column view, and I think that's all.

> (I'm not sure what org-columns--toggle does, but that's another
> story.)

Yes, but maybe this fits in here as a sub story.  The function does the
toggling part described in the manual

#v+
‘C-c C-c’ (‘org-columns-toggle-or-columns-quit’)
     When there is a checkbox at point, toggle it.  Else exit column
     view.
#v-

This functionality looks very special to me but possibly someone enjoys
this behavior daily.

>> I suggest C-c C-c can also call `org-agenda-set-tags' when the column
>> view is not activated.
>
> I just added this.

Okay, thanks.

Re: [RFC] C-c C-c in agenda

[Bastien]

Hi Marco,

Marco Wahl <marcowahlsoft@gmail.com> writes:

> You miss the lines which have not been transformed into columns by
> column view, and I think that's all.

When I turn on `org-agenda-columns', all the lines of my agenda are
transformed into columns.  Can you give me an example where some lines
are not transformed into columns?  My experience is certainly peculiar.

>> (I'm not sure what org-columns--toggle does, but that's another
>> story.)
>
> Yes, but maybe this fits in here as a sub story.  The function does the
> toggling part described in the manual
>
> #v+
> ‘C-c C-c’ (‘org-columns-toggle-or-columns-quit’)
>      When there is a checkbox at point, toggle it.  Else exit column
>      view.
> #v-

I will investigate and possible remove this, if it is not useful.

Thanks,

-- 
 Bastien

Re: [RFC] C-c C-c in agenda

[Marco Wahl]

>> You miss the lines which have not been transformed into columns by
>> column view, and I think that's all.
>
> When I turn on `org-agenda-columns', all the lines of my agenda are
> transformed into columns.  Can you give me an example where some lines
> are not transformed into columns?  My experience is certainly peculiar.

Examples of non-transformed lines are

- The first line, which here is "Day-agenda (W05):".

- `org-agenda-block-separator' lines which I have set to ^L.

- Grid lines (key G)

>>> (I'm not sure what org-columns--toggle does, but that's another
>>> story.)
>>
>> Yes, but maybe this fits in here as a sub story.  The function does the
>> toggling part described in the manual
>>
>> #v+
>> ‘C-c C-c’ (‘org-columns-toggle-or-columns-quit’)
>>      When there is a checkbox at point, toggle it.  Else exit column
>>      view.
>> #v-
>
> I will investigate and possible remove this, if it is not useful.

Possibly it's difficult to realize checkbox toggle otherwise in column
view mode.  (Just my spontaneous 2ct thought.)


Bye!

Re: [RFC] C-c C-c in agenda

[Bastien]

Hi Marco,

Marco Wahl <marcowahlsoft@gmail.com> writes:

>>> You miss the lines which have not been transformed into columns by
>>> column view, and I think that's all.
>>
>> When I turn on `org-agenda-columns', all the lines of my agenda are
>> transformed into columns.  Can you give me an example where some lines
>> are not transformed into columns?  My experience is certainly peculiar.
>
> Examples of non-transformed lines are
>
> - The first line, which here is "Day-agenda (W05):".
> - `org-agenda-block-separator' lines which I have set to ^L.
> - Grid lines (key G)

I think it is okay for C-c C-c to not do anything on these lines.

>>>> (I'm not sure what org-columns--toggle does, but that's another
>>>> story.)
>>>
>>> Yes, but maybe this fits in here as a sub story.  The function does the
>>> toggling part described in the manual
>>>
>>> #v+
>>> ‘C-c C-c’ (‘org-columns-toggle-or-columns-quit’)
>>>      When there is a checkbox at point, toggle it.  Else exit column
>>>      view.
>>> #v-
>>
>> I will investigate and possible remove this, if it is not useful.
>
> Possibly it's difficult to realize checkbox toggle otherwise in column
> view mode.  (Just my spontaneous 2ct thought.)

Thanks - I still don't see any real usecase.

-- 
 Bastien

Re: [RFC] C-c C-c in agenda

[Bastien]

Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> writes:

> Thanks - I still don't see any real usecase.

Ok, I constructed one:

#+COLUMNS:  %30ITEM %MYPROP
#+PROPERTY: MYPROP_ALL "[x]" "[ ]"

* NEXT Rien
  :PROPERTIES:
  :MYPROP:      [ ]
  :END:

In this case, when the cursor is on the MYPROP column in column
(agenda or not) view, C-c C-c will toggle the value.

I guess it makes sense and it does not really interfere with the
majority of the other C-c C-c usecases.

-- 
 Bastien

Re: [RFC] C-c C-c in agenda

[Marco Wahl]

Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> writes:

>> Thanks - I still don't see any real usecase.
>
> Ok, I constructed one:
>
> #+COLUMNS:  %30ITEM %MYPROP
> #+PROPERTY: MYPROP_ALL "[x]" "[ ]"
>
> * NEXT Rien
>   :PROPERTIES:
>   :MYPROP:      [ ]
>   :END:
>
> In this case, when the cursor is on the MYPROP column in column
> (agenda or not) view, C-c C-c will toggle the value.

Yes!  Seeing your example I remember!  Find this example more or less in
section (info "(org) Column attributes").  Just FYI.

Re: [RFC] C-c C-c in agenda

[Samuel Wales]

i think it can be confusing to new users to have column mode
accidentally activated.  what are the things they will try to get out
of it?  maybe worth considering all the panic commands they'd try, and
either deactivate or message what to do to deactivate?

if c-c c-c is being weighed, maybe consider it as one of those things
to possibly tip the balance?  i do not use column mode (drawers are
slow, too disorrganized to make a contact list with it), so cannot
say.

some things they might try are: q, c-c c-c, c-c c-k, esc esc esc, c-g,
undo, whatever they tried last, c-u on whatever they tried last,
revert, kill buffer, ? as a speed command, look at mode line, skim the
manual [for what?], c-z, whatever vim does, spacemacs?.

similar for things like outline search view and org agenda restriction
lock, but in my experience, those are less commonly accidentally
activated.

Re: [RFC] C-c C-c in agenda

[Adam Porter]

Marco Wahl <marcowahlsoft@gmail.com> writes:

> For some days now C-c C-c disables column view in Org files.  This helps
> me a bit and never got in my way.  And I thought it would be quite
> natural and consistent to use this binding for the agenda too.
>
> What do you think about all that?

Hi Marco,

I've always had the impression that the "C-c C-c" binding was intended
to do the most obviously useful or natural action in the current
context.  For example, in a capture or log buffer, it completes the
capture.  With point on a #+ line, it resets buffer properties
accordingly.

I don't use column view very often, so I may be biased, but anyway: in
the general context of an Agenda buffer, I don't feel like enabling or
disabling column view is the most obviously useful or natural thing to
do, so "C-c C-c" doesn't seem like an appropriate binding to me.

Re: [RFC] C-c C-c in agenda

[Bastien]

Hi Adam,

Adam Porter <adam@alphapapa.net> writes:

> I don't use column view very often, so I may be biased, but anyway: in
> the general context of an Agenda buffer, I don't feel like enabling or
> disabling column view is the most obviously useful or natural thing to
> do, so "C-c C-c" doesn't seem like an appropriate binding to me.

In fact, C-c C-c was already deactivating the column view in agenda
buffer since a long time.

Marco's change just opens the door for more bindings to C-c C-c in
agenda buffer - we added `org-agenda-set-tags' so that the behavior
is aligned with that of C-c C-c in org buffers.

-- 
 Bastien
 

Re: [RFC] C-c C-c in agenda

[Marco Wahl]

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> i think it can be confusing to new users to have column mode
> accidentally activated.  what are the things they will try to get out
> of it?  maybe worth considering all the panic commands they'd try, and
> either deactivate or message what to do to deactivate?

Indeed.  Ease the breakout from column view was the main motivation for
the binding.

> if c-c c-c is being weighed, maybe consider it as one of those things
> to possibly tip the balance?  i do not use column mode (drawers are
> slow, too disorrganized to make a contact list with it), so cannot
> say.
>
> some things they might try are: q, c-c c-c, c-c c-k, esc esc esc, c-g,
> undo, whatever they tried last, c-u on whatever they tried last,
> revert, kill buffer, ? as a speed command, look at mode line, skim the
> manual [for what?], c-z, whatever vim does, spacemacs?.

The inspiration for the C-c C-c to quit column view was the removal of
highlightings hanging around from a sparse tree with those keys C-c C-c.

BTW C-c C-c is also a way out of the macro editing buffer.  { M-x
kmacro-edit-macro }

> similar for things like outline search view and org agenda restriction
> lock, but in my experience, those are less commonly accidentally
> activated.

I also think so for restriction lock.


Ciao,
--
Marco

Re: [RFC] C-c C-c in agenda

[Marco Wahl]

Hi Adam,

Adam Porter <adam@alphapapa.net> writes:

>> For some days now C-c C-c disables column view in Org files.  This helps
>> me a bit and never got in my way.  And I thought it would be quite
>> natural and consistent to use this binding for the agenda too.
>>
>> What do you think about all that?
>
> Hi Marco,
>
> I've always had the impression that the "C-c C-c" binding was intended
> to do the most obviously useful or natural action in the current
> context.  For example, in a capture or log buffer, it completes the
> capture.  With point on a #+ line, it resets buffer properties
> accordingly.
>
> I don't use column view very often, so I may be biased, but anyway: in
> the general context of an Agenda buffer, I don't feel like enabling or
> disabling column view is the most obviously useful or natural thing to
> do, so "C-c C-c" doesn't seem like an appropriate binding to me.

Yes, it might not be 100% natural.

But as Samuel pointed out accidentially turned on column view can be a
trap in particular for new users.  And C-c C-c often is a way out not
only in Org mode.  And also recall Bastien's observation that C-c C-c
already all the time quit column view when triggered on a line in column
view state.


Best regards,
--
Marco

Re: [RFC] C-c C-c in agenda

[Samuel Wales]

fwiw i /think/ most of the rest of emacs makes c-c c-c
complete/send/do stuff with entered or modified text, while c-c c-k
cancels.

but we are not talking about cancelling edits so c-c c-k wouldn't be
quite right either.

i just know newcomers will want something.  what is best idk.