From: Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com>
To: Karl Voit <news2042@karl-voit.at>
Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: "Orgdown", the new name for the syntax of Org-mode
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 16:56:15 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAJcAo8s-eAVJj6cqpLb6e-U1ctwbTfv9E0Pf_hG=3MDMPk_SDw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAJcAo8vvMV5+0C-2yJABaQ0sBgDyCaxbSnLUeLT7Df3DfS4reg@mail.gmail.com>
um, or just "assuming too much bias"? :]
again i don't think you are really doing these things by just
proposing a bunch of ideas about markup languages. not everybody
knows all languages and you'll get substantive corrective feedback.
On 11/30/21, Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote:
> if you will forgive one more bikeshed answer, what about this?
>
> - reduced org
> - reduced org, version 1
>
> and maybe
>
> - .rorg extension [if and only if needed to guarantee reduction]
>
> as for why you got bikeshed answers, maybe the subject header of this
> thread might have been part of it?
>
> idk.
>
> ===
>
> as for [other thread], i don't think you are doing this because
> reduced org is an interesting idea but:
>
>> "Does "assuming too much on other people's world because on my own small
>> world" have a scientific name?"
>
> "epistemic tresspassing" has been used for something a bit similar.
> also i would use the term "drive-by paper" for e.g. making claims
> about a disease that the authors do not understand at all but think
> they do, wanting to try their ideology, measurement tool, or intuition
> regardless so they can get a paper out of it, but that does not apply
> here. more generally are things like fiefdom/chauvanism, ideological
> bias, and professional bias, which are different. maybe there should
> be a "small world bias" or an "if you have a hammer everything looks
> like a nail bias"? and a "common belief bias" and "cultural belief
> bias"? and a "my favorite language bias"? you might also consider
> the availability heuristic, saliency bias, epistemic injustice, and
> omission bias, but those are different too.
>
> i think it is a good idea to be interested in the possibility of
> reduced org as a generic markup language.
>
> On 11/28/21, Karl Voit <devnull@karl-voit.at> wrote:
>> Hi Org-mode community,
>>
>> At this year's EmascsConf, I had a 12 minute video where I explain why
>> we do need a different name for the syntax of Org-mode in contrast to
>> the Elisp implementation of GNU/Emacs Org-mode.
>>
>> I would like you to read my rationale and motivate you to use the term
>> "Orgdown" for the syntax and "Orgdown1" for the first (very basic)
>> level of Orgdown syntax elements.
>>
>> - The EmacsConf21 talk: https://emacsconf.org/2021/talks/org-outside
>> - Orgdown site: https://gitlab.com/publicvoit/orgdown (please
>> contribute!)
>> - My motivation article: https://karl-voit.at/2021/11/27/orgdown/
>> - This is the longer version of my 12 minute EmacsConf21 video.
>> - My personal copy of the video:
>> https://tube.graz.social/w/bgJVfjPLQAoJwLJQZoo3Hu
>>
>>
>> Just as a sneak preview (not as a replacement for my motivation article):
>>
>> Orgdown is and will be defined in a set of levels, starting with very
>> basic Orgdown1 (or OD1 or O↓1 or ⧬1 - depending on your coolness
>> factor of choice :-) )
>>
>> - OD1 →
>> https://gitlab.com/publicvoit/orgdown/-/blob/master/doc/Orgdown-Levels.org
>> - OD2 → will be defined in future
>> - OD3 → will be defined in future
>> - ...
>> - OD∞ = Org-mode (by definition)
>>
>> Any OD-level needs to be compatible with Org-mode as implemented in
>> Elisp for GNU/Emacs Org-mode according to https://orgmode.org. Any ODx
>> is a sub-set of the syntax elements of ODy (with y>x).
>>
>> With introducing a new term specific for the syntax, we do get the
>> benefit of getting a better way to handle Org-mode support in
>> 3rd-party tools such as listed on
>> https://gitlab.com/publicvoit/orgdown/-/blob/master/doc/Tool-Support.org
>> (please extend!).
>>
>> Having a well-defined sub-set of Org-mode, I also do think that formal
>> definitions of the Org-mode syntax will be easier to develop, starting
>> with the very simple OD1 level.
>>
>> It would be awesome if we start referring to syntax support in
>> 3rd-party tools with the corresponding OD levels.
>>
>> I want to emphasize that the goal of Orgdown is NOT and will never be
>> something that is an alternative to our golden standard Org-mode. We
>> will try hard not to get into the Markdown situation where you need to
>> know the exact flavor of the markup in order to produce text.
>>
>> So far, the response was great at the conference and I do hope that
>> this idea will get a life of its own, developing the standard further,
>> bringing this magnificent lightweight markup to the digital world.
>> This also eases some pain for users of GNU/Emacs when it comes to
>> exchanging text-based data.
>>
>> Thanks for your support here!
>>
>>
>> --
>> Personal Information Management > http://Karl-Voit.at/tags/pim/
>> Emacs-related > http://Karl-Voit.at/tags/emacs/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> The Kafka Pandemic
>
> Please learn what misopathy is.
> https://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com/2013/10/why-some-diseases-are-wronged.html
>
--
The Kafka Pandemic
Please learn what misopathy is.
https://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com/2013/10/why-some-diseases-are-wronged.html
prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-11-30 23:57 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 39+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-11-28 19:46 "Orgdown", the new name for the syntax of Org-mode Karl Voit
2021-11-28 21:34 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2021-11-28 21:39 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-11-28 21:50 ` Tom Gillespie
2021-11-28 22:25 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-11-28 22:57 ` Tom Gillespie
2021-11-28 23:16 ` Joost Kremers
2021-11-29 1:36 ` George Mauer
2021-11-29 3:25 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-11-29 7:13 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2021-11-28 23:24 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2021-11-29 3:25 ` Devin Prater
2021-12-26 14:54 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2021-11-29 5:41 ` Marcin Borkowski
2021-11-29 12:18 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-11-29 12:36 ` Marcin Borkowski
2021-11-28 22:42 ` Tim Cross
2021-11-29 13:19 ` Karl Voit
2021-11-29 15:12 ` Matt Price
2021-11-29 18:27 ` M. ‘quintus’ Gülker
2021-11-30 7:39 ` Marcin Borkowski
2021-11-30 20:44 ` Orgdown: negative feedback & attempt of a root-cause analysis (was: "Orgdown", the new name for the syntax of Org-mode) Karl Voit
2021-11-30 22:28 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2021-11-30 22:50 ` Eduardo Ochs
2021-12-01 0:41 ` Tom Gillespie
2021-12-01 1:12 ` Tim Cross
2021-12-01 3:28 ` Orgdown: negative feedback & attempt of a root-cause analysis Juan Manuel Macías
2021-12-01 21:17 ` Orgdown: negative feedback & attempt of a root-cause analysis (was: "Orgdown", the new name for the syntax of Org-mode) M. ‘quintus’ Gülker
2021-12-02 6:50 ` Orgdown: negative feedback & attempt of a root-cause analysis Eric S Fraga
2021-12-01 23:43 ` Karl Voit
2021-12-02 1:44 ` Tim Cross
2021-12-02 2:12 ` George Mauer
2021-12-02 8:07 ` Greg Minshall
2021-11-29 2:22 ` "Orgdown", the new name for the syntax of Org-mode Jim Porter
2021-11-29 2:33 ` Michael Ashton
2021-11-29 12:38 ` Max Nikulin
2021-11-29 12:58 ` Christophe Schockaert
2021-11-30 23:50 ` Samuel Wales
2021-11-30 23:56 ` Samuel Wales [this message]
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