From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id sH3ZB9cgE2GgIQAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 11 Aug 2021 02:59:03 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id uDBQA9cgE2F/OgAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 11 Aug 2021 00:59:03 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E0CF1DDA3 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 2021 02:59:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:46970 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mDcaC-0001px-Sm for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 20:59:00 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54472) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mDcZh-0001po-8P for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 20:58:29 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-x32f.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::32f]:37406) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mDcZe-0002RA-2q for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 20:58:29 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-x32f.google.com with SMTP id l34-20020a05600c1d22b02902573c214807so3188246wms.2 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 17:58:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=andrew-cmu-edu.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Y6/dm3q+ytEoP9heQETMmkezvb6bY6QbPk3tbJ48wgA=; b=z8vLzrl2oggtIWAN1soURKgv9yUp9e3MZTyYWcercUXFjCqsKOf1cKnj99PyDqCqK8 HPJz393sQM6grQPUIX30vrmJWmyI1R3eHqEUG42aH4zezQ3LsrYG+O2+ZKKclBYY6+w1 kMPTEk3jqOvTml4uT6UmW9Y1udRrmGMqIrOYOdx2KcbrkI+ZCwMT73ikHK+pTCI+nIlp WFyXFnB6rNCswi2oLQJi+b0Sb+vDXWmbUBusqd4silNK9GkL5UK082K2rSklImN3PLMl livab49X06kGEuycjRL+snNkOUZYa0y5LmOyP3cFTa3QTcX0GeuqhNRbojsSznF/alxM X42w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Y6/dm3q+ytEoP9heQETMmkezvb6bY6QbPk3tbJ48wgA=; b=Zys917AXL3zq6dhWflMu50ahqi1PixTTNJPUhjyU9Ekcr2XwEZqxN3hGEa+ubkkbP2 U3xHsvCK30CVn/iMi+m+9K2pUKG346lFSxrYFJsiYlWTAHKAOsCUxceNvn7QGk6dfoWJ weIpxaQv4V5Ru++wXYtOaiSLpbXgWv1BCmXOXfUZnPAJOJeZPEcbKU+5zEfT/X+zLkC0 hCsquXKxB8H+VaznszRv27tXrpIWbt4TV4Kmku4XRkpnECOoN/59QOYFM/wKC1q9iaSR z003o2VmxH7bTYBJpjc1dnIvEco+at2AyDJFxwqwfUA4nFJlfG/K5zcTF7AE+p/P9MC/ d2hw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531Oj3dOnJsXi0qbdUPgiVmJXInUctZ44rjjGC5Xxzy4MOj7GLLN A20Vzhr7gVu1cbxkwvIWHpRviwqauREMGVhm/k5pkHSe7bg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwVUUyThSce26b1LCs8DUBNL1cfirKBoDUSHHbQLXBefZ6lWg/xMx50LeNIiUnoy7lSgeo5FeQLH1/ZP1RpMhM= X-Received: by 2002:a7b:c014:: with SMTP id c20mr24675565wmb.81.1628643503309; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 17:58:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Kitchin Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 20:58:12 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Expanding how the new cite syntax is used to include cross-references - thoughts? To: org-mode-email Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007b07f505c93e1df0" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::32f; envelope-from=johnrkitchin@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x32f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -13 X-Spam_score: -1.4 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1628643542; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=Y6/dm3q+ytEoP9heQETMmkezvb6bY6QbPk3tbJ48wgA=; b=qlbYfzU8bQ9DCZRq8rGmNwlgCva4T4C6Tt36bjW34m1fRAWzXZLhXA4fJajgC5nD/EsGhq j0hlKZ9MmvJIIBqO9sN4ZrNTQxRQ4qshehhbVdC982DlrSAbohal2Z9rMJR9h2aprVr+6W HtFV7m2e0IRgTnkDn54kiGL1Vaj+MBImV2kwCkph2/ZnxPnwNGrMXZWlgkcwoVw/0n9SHi HBtUbiaG2PdswfVzJmRYBTVnTjYCbH6UN1Ouug9O1Xfnj0HCHmnAU6whfa8AusJdbbDQ35 hLiLTuJcU9WhGXPgK7eiaeiX5x1mXWQ9wgb+47uvtUn2L61SNj8dorfR3AJOkg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1628643542; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=nPn4xx06tO1iXbGGJSp2sA0netgGN30ccxofNmj7jh2FQxhkP4Um8fr/Y2Cug4DJbqjkoZ 0j+cOIga2IIpKmotSZQAAK15LzLEkfbc/1rY403wibvcJMActUJa1mvHPzbBw74eEi97CG xWfjN8wIQcxzRwsfswbw7tsefyxkVMEEPSbc2dkLOQ2FYztMRz+UEuNuJM7EexjIzb4kTE 5AX8fRKDl8BDl5JPh2E91GdKvwJI9ZNkbKazZEA1ChZzJ4Cq7rvNGDbBzMVjI7SmQtGfzt 6w+jF/wH8m+JVuHAk5ZkujdL95zPkFEF/9VVOymd/d9yjttG6Fg9k/tN8iJLbw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=andrew-cmu-edu.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=z8vLzrl2; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.51 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=andrew-cmu-edu.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=z8vLzrl2; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), DKIM not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=andrew.cmu.edu (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: E0CF1DDA3 X-Spam-Score: -1.51 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: ZEIzjuHPmFdY --0000000000007b07f505c93e1df0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" To preface this, let me note that I am looking for a way to replace org-ref with a complete and orthogonal package for writing scientific papers with citations and cross-references. (I can probably live without the glossary and acronym support). The cross-references in org-ref were handled with org-links, and I think it would be a mistake to try to do that again because the links will be defined by the last package loaded which will lead to issues. So, I would like what I call an orthogonal approach for cross-references, orthogonal in the sense that it can coexist with org-ref, but not require org-ref if you don't use it. The built in internal links like [[label]] lack the flexibility I need (I think), e.g. to differentiate a typical reference from an equation reference (these map to \ref{label} and \eqref{label} in latex for example), and there are other references that are relevant in latex also like \pageref{label}, \cref{label} etc. While working on org-ref-cite, it occurred to me that we can use the new org-cite syntax for cross-references, without any changes to the syntax, we can just use a different style. This would enable a near complete and orthogonal replacement of org-ref. These cross-references are like a citation IMO, but to a separate set of targets, i.e. not to bibliography entries but rather to locations within the document, and possibly even to other documents. e.g. [cite/ref:@label] would be a cross-reference to "label" defined in a CUSTOM_ID on a heading, a NAME keyword, or in raw latex like \label{label}. You could use substyles for equations, or page refs, etc. e.g. [cite/ref/eq:@label] for an equation. You could also use a prefix to indicate a figure, table, equation, e.g. [cite/ref/eq:Equation @label]. This does add a bit of complexity to the processors, which have to do different things for the different kinds of cites (for activation, insertion, following and exporting), and that is based only on the style. I would not expect these styles to be fully supported by all the processors. For LaTeX though, it would make for a near total and orthogonal replacement of org-ref. You can see what this would look like at https://github.com/jkitchin/org-ref-cite/issues/16. I use style-dependent fontification to differentiate bibliographic citations from cross-references. They also have different follow behaviors. Anyway, I am curious what you all think. Is it a good idea? Worth waiting for or thinking of a better solution? John ----------------------------------- Professor John Kitchin (he/him/his) Doherty Hall A207F Department of Chemical Engineering Carnegie Mellon University Pittsburgh, PA 15213 412-268-7803 @johnkitchin http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu --0000000000007b07f505c93e1df0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To preface this, let me note that I am looking for a = way to replace org-ref with a complete and orthogonal package for writing s= cientific papers with citations and cross-references. (I can probably live = without=C2=A0the glossary and acronym support). The cross-references in org= -ref were handled with org-links, and I think it would be a mistake to try = to do that again because the links will be defined by the last package load= ed which will lead to issues. So, I would like what I call an orthogonal ap= proach for cross-references,=C2=A0orthogonal in the sense that it can coexi= st with org-ref, but not require=C2=A0org-ref if you don't use it. The = built in internal links like [[label]] lack the flexibility I need (I think= ), e.g. to differentiate a typical reference from an equation reference (th= ese map to \ref{label} and \eqref{label} in latex for example), and there a= re other=C2=A0references that are relevant in latex also like \pageref{labe= l}, \cref{label} etc.

While working on org-ref-cit= e, it occurred to me that we can use the new org-cite syntax for cross-refe= rences,=C2=A0without any changes to the syntax,=C2=A0we can just use a diff= erent style. This would enable a near complete and orthogonal replacement o= f org-ref. These cross-references are like a citation IMO, but to a separat= e set of targets, i.e. not to bibliography entries but rather to locations = within the document, and possibly even to other documents.

e.g. [cite/ref:@label] would be a cross-reference to "label" = defined in a CUSTOM_ID on a heading, a NAME keyword, or in raw latex like \= label{label}.

You could use substyles for equations, or page refs, e= tc. e.g. [cite/ref/eq:@label] for an equation.

You could also use a = prefix to indicate a figure, table, equation, e.g. [cite/ref/eq:Equation @l= abel].

This does add a bit of complexity to the processo= rs, which have to do different things for the different kinds of cites (for= activation, insertion, following and exporting), and that is based only on= the style. I would not expect these styles to be fully supported by all th= e processors. For LaTeX though, it would make for a near total and orthogon= al replacement of org-ref.

You can see what this would l= ook like at = https://github.com/jkitchin/org-ref-cite/issues/16. I use style-depende= nt fontification to differentiate bibliographic citations from cross-refere= nces. They also have different follow behaviors.

A= nyway, I am curious what you all think. Is it a good idea? Worth waiting fo= r or thinking of a better solution?


<= div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature= ">
John

----------------------= -------------
Professor John Kitchin (he/him/his)
Doherty Hall A207F<= br>Department of Chemical Engineering
Carnegie Mellon University
Pitt= sburgh, PA 15213
412-268-7803
--0000000000007b07f505c93e1df0--