From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: brickviking Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs release cadence Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2023 15:51:27 +1200 Message-ID: References: <87il9kksqz.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87ttt42gna.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87wmy080kn.fsf@posteo.net> <83v8djcydl.fsf@gnu.org> <87350ndquw.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83350ncbns.fsf@gnu.org> <87cyzrjbd8.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83zg2vav46.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7j99304.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87wmxj27fn.fsf@dfreeman.email> <831qfrptiq.fsf@gnu.org> <57429221-d9be-5791-e975-b3539905e2f6@gutov.dev> <83a5udlj47.fsf@gnu.org> <87a5udk1co.fsf@posteo.net> <835y51kslv.fsf@gnu.org> <7a82c524-1aa1-e755-e377-673ebb107a44@gutov.dev> <83r0nok8s4.fsf@gnu.org> <87il90znco.fsf@yahoo.com> <1977fbef-307b-bcf4-9448-64f26916dd65@gutov.dev> <87edjozlqq.fsf@yahoo.com> <43ddad10-49dd-1c49-ebfe-51689780b315@gutov.dev> <83jztgk410.fsf@gnu.org> <225f2669-f517-a1cc-cc2c-bef240396c03@gutov.dev> <83msybidcs.fsf@gnu.org> <7859c619-9616-d54f-04a0-adc46982afaa@gutov.dev> <83sf82gfdd.fsf@gnu.org> <83msy9hlqm.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000cae0a106041bd92c" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6019"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 30 05:53:08 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qbCGR-0001Nh-VJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 30 Aug 2023 05:53:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbCFY-0002ea-Gi; Tue, 29 Aug 2023 23:52:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbCFW-0002e4-CE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Aug 2023 23:52:10 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf1-x12f.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::12f]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbCFT-0000PS-SP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Aug 2023 23:52:10 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf1-x12f.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-5008faf4456so8112280e87.3 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2023 20:52:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1693367525; x=1693972325; darn=gnu.org; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=sn3vauHkeUZQKDJ2zrF09keQXSUmatpNraAnTnIXsh4=; b=pGm/rLJV++QbwbQtEiiPl31+BxaSoyqetrRqy/p1RFU49AmEoaTsrPbAn96sLo7IoL D9WSKnR4bZBq2EatA/SudoAZvCKTlZqWgXSF8OrBnMJr6pdHwJPVxxsyYTfmoTGYFUlW NA34vnTMB5HzlvFNu8X/6Zm/yjqvAfj3neYsDJIqBtC5e07ralCmBImA35R+dcmw1Bq0 dJxmIaHqqdQ6QyXeZshjx+dIzqY3TNTYJfQK1tHZ3WS5iWVfAi3JvYKGNSG6UQUXDKqX zxE7UyhAxFEDEM9bBt/Xv+18cWuZHavykFi0Ds+WuPahlxorFWtBN9Db0pkv3GfQHKzL Sg1w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1693367525; x=1693972325; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=sn3vauHkeUZQKDJ2zrF09keQXSUmatpNraAnTnIXsh4=; b=JqOIN52qHp8NiUk+URAlBDZDsZoXlR8bojn9pZo0Ia4jHFKA1ZvM/j552VVJUk6g3W 3e4wGrL8BCZ9N4BxN3g2zAS5LnuJOeS/a+eFSvKDZdSxDIjk2lixWxKcW+/VqPcJadYK wo2A83diaCsRm+LGxSX35en+BG81+rv0xFozDlVmMVfN9t3ip9ntslnQZx+8tPttU/nK mh8C8vnfOhpW/BcRCsjsgQc35XdTcLMw0h6odhQttUwjrwzUChmeSDV5+PfMyTZg5ehr 0poZg9lewhn1P9lCpE6/HPCG3V6JZ5IsiubZPLUCAjOFJaXG4FCLQyr7oAmNwAonUHeZ gQmg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yxye2XYz8viQ2JN3MQIeaWN2QCa9jtFm41s2FSpuGa6mkxh/nrB /pODiY/o7c2FJSZj0/bv0Dwh5Oal4Va67wtJOGsAdZwv X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGV0lLS+GZR1b8EsHqYTeM+sOWljEThUmxg5nzDxVNq3Wv4xlaJUpygAreseED0GVTREVB1iqoEeFUY9yrhCsA= X-Received: by 2002:a19:5054:0:b0:500:90d1:90a6 with SMTP id z20-20020a195054000000b0050090d190a6mr570774lfj.63.1693367524841; Tue, 29 Aug 2023 20:52:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83msy9hlqm.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::12f; envelope-from=brickviking@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x12f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -10 X-Spam_score: -1.1 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309527 Archived-At: --000000000000cae0a106041bd92c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I'm what I consider to be a user that doesn't "stress" the editor, so therefore I'm unlikely to see the sorts of bugs I can usefully test and report. I also don't install the kitchen sink, so there are far less chances for bad interaction between things. The most chance I've had to test something that might (vaguely) have affected me was with the recent dired-killing-frame-on-start bug (#65277), and I don't normally start emacs with a dired session anyhow. In regard to release cadence, I'm not really bothered how long the product (in this case, the new version of an editor with new functionality) takes to produce. I just want it to be stable enough to work when I compile and run it. I'm not honestly sure how you'll get useful aggregated information out of my class of users, any hints here? (Aside from that of simply getting more involved). Regards, brickviking On Wed, 30 Aug 2023 at 04:12, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2023 16:14:22 +0300 > > From: Eli Zaretskii > > Cc: stefankangas@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > > > And, btw, the last 3 major releases took 1.25 to 1.5 years, so already > > quite close to the 1-year mark. Not 2 years, as you say. > > Btw, if we want to make more frequent releases, we should start from > making sure each code change is accompanied by a suitable change to > our manuals. The NEWS file on master is once again full of entries > with neither "---" nor "+++" markings, and going through all such > entries and documenting them (or deciding not to) is a job that takes > quite some time if delayed to before the first pretest. I'd > appreciate if people who want to push for more frequent releases would > either work on documenting changes that their authors didn't, or at > least would remind those authors to maybe provide some documentation. > > IOW, making our releases more frequent will take a serious effort from > everyone, otherwise it will simply not work for any number of good > reasons. > > --000000000000cae0a106041bd92c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm what I consider to be a user= that doesn't "stress" the editor, so therefore I'm unlik= ely to see the sorts of bugs I can usefully test and report. I also don'= ;t install the kitchen sink, so there are far less chances for bad interact= ion between things. The most chance I've had to test something that mig= ht (vaguely) have affected me was with the recent dired-killing-frame-on-st= art bug (#65277), and I don't normally start emacs with a dired session= anyhow.

In regard to release cadence, I'm not real= ly bothered how long the product (in this case, the new version of an edito= r with new functionality) takes to produce. I just want it to be stable eno= ugh to work when I compile and run it. I'm not honestly sure how you= 9;ll get useful aggregated information out of my class of users, any hints = here? (Aside from that of simply getting more involved).

Regards, brickviking



On Wed, 30 Aug= 2023 at 04:12, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.= org> wrote:
> Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2023 16:14:22 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> Cc: stefan= kangas@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>
> And, btw, the last 3 major releases took 1.25 to 1.5 years, so already=
> quite close to the 1-year mark.=C2=A0 Not 2 years, as you say.

Btw, if we want to make more frequent releases, we should start from
making sure each code change is accompanied by a suitable change to
our manuals.=C2=A0 The NEWS file on master is once again full of entries with neither "---" nor "+++" markings, and going throug= h all such
entries and documenting them (or deciding not to) is a job that takes
quite some time if delayed to before the first pretest.=C2=A0 I'd
appreciate if people who want to push for more frequent releases would
either work on documenting changes that their authors didn't, or at
least would remind those authors to maybe provide some documentation.

IOW, making our releases more frequent will take a serious effort from
everyone, otherwise it will simply not work for any number of good
reasons.

--000000000000cae0a106041bd92c--