From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Bithov Vinu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Using unmaintained plugins Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 10:40:05 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87o8ea9376.fsf@mbork.pl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="7392"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, Jean Louis To: Marcin Borkowski Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 19 11:41:37 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lYQPR-0001lt-Q5 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2021 11:41:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56562 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lYQPQ-0000Jh-QL for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2021 05:41:36 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51550) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lYQOH-0000J9-VJ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2021 05:40:25 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pg1-x52e.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::52e]:39438) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lYQOB-0001Gs-EB for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2021 05:40:25 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pg1-x52e.google.com with SMTP id s22so2759697pgk.6 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2021 02:40:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=4vRZMe5ZRGT52gfccrHmgzQPvNa2CJfhk/7nDzRI5VE=; b=VkyY3jHe7+JfBuN+H+CVIzDy/Qu3Z79LoaOZeL/ikhXSgroLRJgd9wp4iKFBwTb807 gdFeUDZWAL6/FJlkmyIWcy986VoPVsnpLTS9cS/KcIGhg+YiBfNDmyprfLkc0eCm+UPC w6iyTj5Sk2UdS4sQBswh7x0xhV69DTKy6oiIk9NT6ywxlvgClsjN7PKTQ7gKi77JgLC8 lHbSBo5qzoAx0xrerXaMdQFzdT6K4gv8SELwiDijy55Bivm1XhGfCGcJhdARANnXtIEg ZtFJFUrM0PCHumUQrWeZrZEf55HAT01GG9eb+Lg6febC0qQmZdvDesaGxPcgiCTEW/yb wcmw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=4vRZMe5ZRGT52gfccrHmgzQPvNa2CJfhk/7nDzRI5VE=; b=reyWxOLy+X6S3izu5rjI5/H0uiYTIKHgM6LSobyOU330sql2MLLqyKHuJ/93DwbgBC voLHtZzO0JxNDRL0+QvjzWQAE9xNJWIwTBhVtJow15m3/s9mknk3EKpTAU+5cJdgU0rz HEzJL1+FIUZcVLq1xwf8eeQC1nm6/8F8HSa1SyWC2WVdwavWjoXGDfp8xJ3WFtbwHGwW 3i/4ptp0cdoe7df5a+18ZERBspl1RJcnyHFUx94bAEo3y+9gtc23SUk1FKh5q+sctxOC zPAh5lckOUcApW8QH4mJa43wpLIBlAGqKozOE1Jwk9zaEgrlrzUom9vUYkxFp4bjFEc8 xgEg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533N17XXFhrf3LH2aAJ0Z8ZCJrFDxoccfs4Kv17hlw5I7bk8txNQ QGs6fqY1Xdj8AwvnAsIM/+Musq9FLOH6gNbATg4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxF6kUFj61p2K+P/iVhgICoyTu/01DYk5LmMGE6VQPiosDkk62MYLlIYP2adQCAA4nMg7vLX165WIlASEAJHOg= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:c82:b029:261:86c7:9ed7 with SMTP id a2-20020a056a000c82b029026186c79ed7mr1827865pfv.42.1618825216332; Mon, 19 Apr 2021 02:40:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::52e; envelope-from=bithov.vinub@gmail.com; helo=mail-pg1-x52e.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.23 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:129070 Archived-At: An addendum: a quick scan of org-drill reveals that all it uses (from org at least) is the functionality to search for headers with a certain tag (:drill: in its case) and some other core functionality (it doesn't use any hot-out-of-the-oven org features) so I think I can rest assured that unless there's a major refactoring of all of org, I need to worry. On Mon, 19 Apr 2021, 09:12 Bithov Vinu, wrote: > Thanks for your input. I think I'll keep using org-drill (and hopefully > learn emacs lisp over the years) rather than moving to another spaced > repetition application. Since I collected Paul Sexton's org-drill and > org-learn.el, there have only been trivial changes, which I have been able > to fix (for example, org-drill depends on *cl*, which I was informed by > Emacs was deprecated, so I used cl-libify > to convert the org-drill.el source > to not use *cl*). I can at least hope that changes to Emacs/Org-mode > don't cripple it any more than I know how to fix. Having said that, I'll be > sure to use it with caution and learn Emacs Lisp and org-mode programming. > On that note, does anyone have any resources for learning org-mode > programming? Emacs Lisp guides are abundant, but I'm not sure how to > learn org-mode programming. > > The ongoing discussion about the spacing effect and memory seem > interesting. I'm leaning towards Mr Borkowski's view; I've been reading > memory science and around the forgetting curve in general as a hobby for a > good few years and his arguments seem fairly sound. I partly understand > Jean Louis' point, but a lot of the points made about mnemotechniques have > been addressed by Dr Piotr Wozniak (see here > for > credentials) pretty extensively here > . > > The point that mnemotechniques can be used solely as a panacea for memory > is directly debunked in that article; many of the courses that claim to > give the audience "infinite memory" and are self-described "mentalists" are > often snake-oil salesman and shills. Jean's point that you ought not to use > spaced repetition, because it relies on rote memorization rather than > understanding, isn't sound in that: > a) no-one versed in the field of spaced repetition and the forgetting > curve is advocating substituting understanding for rote memorization > through spaced repetition > b) in fact, Piotr Wozniak (the first researcher to implement a spaced > repetition algorithm on a computer) argues that formulation of knowledge is > hugely important in using spaced repetition, as summarised here > . The > first rule of "formulating knowledge" is "do not learn (ie. memorise using > spaced repetition) what you do not understand (ie. what you haven't learned > in the traditional sense of the word)". > > I could debunk each point that Jean made, but the field of spaced > repetition is incredibly well documented (mostly by Piotr Wozniak, see his > sites here and here > ) so going through each point would be a > waste of time. I would highly recommend that you read SupermemoGuru in > particular, that site is rich in its writing. > > More generally, the forgetting curve is found everywhere in nature, and > attempting to circumvent it using mnemonics is completely futile > . In fact, the rate of > forgetting is explained by Zipf's Law > , which is fantastically > explained in a video by Vsauce > . *All *memory is subject to > the forgetting curve, perhaps forgetting can be delayed through the use of > mnemonics, but ultimately, permastore is a myth > . > > I've linked a lot to Piotr Wozniak's writings, so I'd advise that anyone > reading it check out the references page > so that they can verify his > claims, and to ensure that Piotr Wozniak > is > actually a legitimate researcher. > > There have been some dubious claims made by Piotr, but, all in all, > supermemo.guru seems to be a legitimate site. Org-drill uses SM-2 and SM-5 > officially and an experimental SM-8 algorithm, SM in this case standing for > Supermemo (the product in which Piotr implemented his spaced repetition > algorithms). SM-0 was the first one, SM-2 and SM-5 succeeded it. Up to > SM-5, the algorithm was peer reviewed (you can find them and his other > research papers here ) > but after this, the newer algorithms were not published and instead the > algorithms (the latest is SM-18) became a trade secret. You can read about > the history of the supermemo algorithm here > . > > There's a fantastic article by Wired that explains in great detail the > spacing effect, I'd advise you all read it. It's linked here > . > > >