From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Li Shuai Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Need help about octave integration on emacs 24.3 Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 23:47:27 +0800 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417016882 20182 80.91.229.3 (26 Nov 2014 15:48:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 15:48:02 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 26 16:47:57 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Xteos-00019r-9K for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 16:47:54 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34457 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xteor-0005TR-VK for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 10:47:53 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39394) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XteoY-0005T9-M3 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 10:47:39 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XteoU-0005Xg-7n for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 10:47:34 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-qc0-x230.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400d:c01::230]:58781) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XteoU-0005Xc-0K for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 10:47:30 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-qc0-f176.google.com with SMTP id i17so2274047qcy.35 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 07:47:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=W+Hvi+BchECQVPcva5ExbZQ/wplPphjg2WIuw1q/pdw=; b=foS+mNrLzMEV8iyuYdlk97dBzb9eryxKZQwd1uEyY0XQDvyawZ9wf/m2SXD4gLATRo e/Apz3i2IGisS2MkHhr9YpzMA48+dUYhO/+yDrgUcENEBy6w+1MJRzobXCMcyv4Kmz6a YmVWS9X2NsF0ZCJJFWt+NlHBl+DtqEzBIxuIog33l+R4VnEleYZQWiCbMwzsxx/CfiLE bIugxY+hAVES1x4b+QCA/KbTf2COL3gBMPBtp/prwho5XWnKL7GPromJeeI3YZwCIc1l s8by63jXWDTVsem4I0YtpfxkRVN889iwgslGRsOQaY0txGR8GJANFaFICxSE3KGaztkt go9w== X-Received: by 10.224.3.134 with SMTP id 6mr47739800qan.87.1417016847970; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 07:47:27 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.140.83.177 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 07:47:27 -0800 (PST) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400d:c01::230 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:101226 Archived-At: > > This is the first time I try to ask for help from community instead of > always trying to solve it by myself or delay the solving. Pretty nice > experience. I did not expect it to be solved so quickly. Thanks again! > > Shuai > Best > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 11:55 PM, wrote: > >> Send help-gnu-emacs mailing list submissions to >> help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> help-gnu-emacs-request@gnu.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> help-gnu-emacs-owner@gnu.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of help-gnu-emacs digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Why is it not possible to use "nil" any more in init >> files ? (Alexandre Oberlin) >> 2. Re: Need help about octave integration on emacs 24.3 (Leo Liu) >> 3. RE: How to truly unbind global bindings? (Drew Adams) >> 4. RE: When do you prefer frames instead of windows? (Drew Adams) >> 5. RE: When do you prefer windows instead of frames? Was: When >> do you prefer frames instead of windows? (Drew Adams) >> 6. RE: When do you prefer frames instead of windows? (Drew Adams) >> 7. RE: When do you prefer frames instead of windows? (Drew Adams) >> 8. RE: When do you prefer frames instead of windows? >> (Gian Uberto Lauri) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 16:07:39 +0100 >> From: "Alexandre Oberlin" >> To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org >> Subject: Re: Why is it not possible to use "nil" any more in init >> files ? >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes >> >> Thanks Phillip for your answer. >> >> You wrote: >> >> From my perspective, most people who write >> > (hated-mode nil) >> > are likely to be able to work out what is happening, while someone who >> > accidentally writes >> > (wanted-mode) >> > and later >> > (wanted-mode) >> > has a more pernicuous problem. >> >> So the toggling functions have been broken too!? Anyway I?d say most such >> users don?t write, they just click/touch. >> >> Now do you mean that for emacs developers too, unlearned user mistakes >> driven interfacing has become the guiding principle? I use *n?x systems >> because I preferred to learn a few things from the start and then know >> what happens and get what I want. Now this is more and more difficult as >> the (supposed) average behaviour of occasional users rules (and constantly >> changes, as well as its perception by new developers). Users who need to >> work productively are getting nervous because they don?t have time to >> spend playing with their configurations at each new release of any piece >> of software. Breaking backward compatibility had always been a NONO, even >> at Microsoft. >> >> IMHO this "intuitive" paradigm is OK for phones/tablets, at least if some >> consensus can be found. And we all know that casual users will more and >> more use phones/tablets, not computers any more. As for the more motivated >> users, they should rather be helped with some good principles and >> tutorials, and not the developers adapt to their initial shortcomings. >> >> Cheers, >> >> >> Alexandre >> >> >> >> On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 14:50:22 +0100, Phillip Lord >> wrote: >> >> > >> > Clearly, if the interface has changed it runs the risk of breaking some >> > statements which were previously fulfilling the programmers intent. >> > This, of course, is irritating for those affected, but that doesn't make >> > it wrong. >> > >> >> From my perspective, most people who write >> > >> > (hated-mode nil) >> > >> > are likely to be able to work out what is happening, while someone who >> > accidentally writes >> > >> > (wanted-mode) >> > >> > and later >> > >> > (wanted-mode) >> > >> > has a more pernicuous problem. >> > >> > I always used >> > >> > (hated-mode 0) >> > >> > which seems to be more intuitive than passing nil. Perhaps this is why >> > the change did not irritate me. >> > >> > >> > Alexandre Oberlin writes: >> > >> >> Thanks Stefan for this explanation. So IIUC that trick broke some >> >> correct >> >> .emacs in order to magically fix some broken ones? >> >> >> >> Alexandre >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, 22 Nov 2014 15:37:04 +0100, Stefan Monnier >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>>> I know that departing from proven approaches for no sensible reason >> >>>> is top >> >>>> of the art but is there any kind of other rationale to make the thing >> >>>> not >> >>>> backward-compatible? >> >>> >> >>> Of course, there's a reason: All minor modes since Emacs-23 (IIRC) >> >>> should turn themselves ON when called with a nil argument, so you >> don't >> >>> need turn-on-FOO-mode and you can just say: >> >>> >> >>> (add-hook 'bar-mode-hook 'foo-mode) >> >>> >> >>> The better part of this incompatible change is that it silently >> *fixed* >> >>> many people's .emacs since many people already used: >> >>> >> >>> (add-hook 'bar-mode-hook 'foo-mode) >> >>> >> >>> without realizing that this could actually turn the mode OFF in >> >>> some cases. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Stefan >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> -- >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 23:26:09 +0800 >> From: Leo Liu >> To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org >> Subject: Re: Need help about octave integration on emacs 24.3 >> Message-ID: <87lhmzl2su.fsf@gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain >> >> On 2014-11-25 09:12 -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> > It is: there's an autoload of the `octave-mode' function which fetches >> > the function from `octave-mod'. So you either have to overwrite it with >> > your own autoload, or you can simply (load "octave") which will >> > overwrite the autoload with the actual function. >> >> Indeed. In other words put (require 'octave) in your init file. >> >> Leo >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 07:43:29 -0800 (PST) >> From: Drew Adams >> To: Alexander Shukaev , help-gnu-emacs >> >> Subject: RE: How to truly unbind global bindings? >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> >> > The answer was: >> > (use-global-map (make-sparse-keymap)) >> >> Why do you want to do this? (Doesn't sound advisable, to me.) >> >> Perhaps if you describe your use case/scenario, people will >> have something useful to suggest. I cannot imagine why anyone >> would try to replace the `global-map' with a new, sparse keymap. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 07:46:19 -0800 (PST) >> From: Drew Adams >> To: Gian Uberto Lauri >> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, Raffaele Ricciardi >> Subject: RE: When do you prefer frames instead of windows? >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> > > I would ask an opposite question: IF you could use Emacs frames >> > > as easily as you can use Emacs windows, in what scenarios would >> > > you prefer using Emacs windows, and why? >> > >> > ...mail reading, sql interaction and when working on two parts of >> > the same file or two files with a macro... >> > >> > If the frames could really be used like windows, then, it could be >> > that I would be comfortable with separate frames. >> >> That was the question. "IF you could use frames as easily as you >> can use Emacs windows..." I certainly agree that currently you >> cannot, especially with just vanilla Emacs. But if you could... >> >> > create several WindowMaker application icons with a single Emacs >> > instance, and using a different image for each application icon. >> >> That sounds like something that would pertain only to certain >> platforms, since different platforms have different notions of >> "icon" etc. But the ability you mention sounds like it might >> be useful. >> >> > This was nice because that let me associate a certain frame with a >> > certain workspace (i.e. e-mail on workspace 1 and db-interaction on >> > workspace 6) and use a click on the application icon to jump to that >> > workspace. >> >> FYI, you can use bookmarks to similar effect. With Bookmark+ you >> can just jump to this or that desktop bookmark, to change between >> Emacs "workspaces", as defined by desktop.el. And it doesn't >> matter whether you use one frame or 37 frames for such a workspace. >> >> http://www.emacswiki.org/BookmarkPlus#DesktopBookmarks >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 07:46:58 -0800 (PST) >> From: Drew Adams >> To: dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de, help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org >> Subject: RE: When do you prefer windows instead of frames? Was: When >> do you prefer frames instead of windows? >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> > > I would ask an opposite question: IF you could use Emacs frames >> > > as easily as you can use Emacs windows, in what scenarios would >> > > you prefer using Emacs windows, and why? >> > >> > For supporting tasks only: Imagine you are starting from a full-screen >> > window and want to see temporarily a variable definition in a second >> > window while still hacking away. The advantage is that window >> > operations, like C-x } enlarge-window-horizontally, >> > delete-other-windows-vertically,... operate simultaneously on all >> > windows. In such situations it seems to me much more convenient to >> > use windows than set it up with frames. >> >> Again - but what "IF you could use Emacs frames as easily as you >> can use Emacs windows"? That's the question. >> >> Pop up a *Help* frame instead of a *Help* window to show help. Hit >> `C-x 0' to get rid of that frame when you're done. You probably do >> not need to resize the frame (e.g., if the frame is automatically >> fit to the size of just the *Help* text). But if you do, then use >> keys to resize it, just as you would for a window. >> >> IOW, think past what you can do with a window (resize, move, control >> where it pops up, etc.) that you think you cannot easily do with a >> frame now. >> >> I certainly agree that if frames are not made as convenient to >> interact with (i.e., the same kinds of operations you use on >> windows) then Emacs windows remain useful. But if Emacs *did* >> support such operations with frames, out of the box,... >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 07:47:10 -0800 (PST) >> From: Drew Adams >> To: Ralf Fassel , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org >> Subject: RE: When do you prefer frames instead of windows? >> Message-ID: <4a56056d-6a48-48ea-a80f-448057dce7f4@default> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> > Single frame for Ediff: A on top, B in the middle, Control at >> > bottom. The separate control frame is a nuisance with >> > focus-follows-mouse, it almost always is out of focus, loses >> > the cursor, or misbehaves in other fashions... >> >> Seems like that is something that could be fixed. Have you >> thought about filing a bug report / enhancement request? >> (`M-x report-emacs-bug') >> >> FWIW, I've been using Ediff with separate frames for decades, >> and I don't have any such problem. But I don't use >> `focus-follows-mouse'. >> >> In principle, Ediff should play well with separate frames. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 07:47:24 -0800 (PST) >> From: Drew Adams >> To: Rainer M Krug >> Cc: Raffaele Ricciardi , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, >> Robert Thorpe >> Subject: RE: When do you prefer frames instead of windows? >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> > > You need to be able to do the same kinds of things with frames >> > > that you can do with Emacs windows - *from the keyboard* (and with >> > > a mouse). Including move around incrementally, resize >> > > incrementally, cycle/choose, tile/split, and so on. >> > > >> > > I use Emacs that way, but as I say, this is not provided out of >> > > the box with `emacs -Q'. (It should be, IMO.) >> > >> > You are throwing teaser around - is your emacs config some=where >> > on=ine, so that I could take a look at your configuration regarding >> > frames? >> >> I really did not mean it that way. I'm more interested here in >> looking at the use cases that people might think really apply to >> Emacs windows inherently. >> >> It's about a thought experiment: WHAT IF you could easily do with >> frames what you do with windows, using the keyboard (or the mouse)? >> Would you still see some scenarios where you would prefer to use >> a window? If so, what would they be? >> >> I do use code that tries to make frames more convenient to use, but >> that really is beside the point of my question. What I would like >> is for vanilla Emacs to provide frame-friendly manipulation. >> >> I do understand that Emacs does not have real control over >> window-manager windows (i.e., frames); it can only request/suggest >> changes to be made by the window manager. And different platforms >> & window managers are different, so it is likely that there would >> never be a 100% cross-platform solution with the level of control >> that we have with Emacs windows. >> >> Still, I know from my own experience that it is possible to obtain >> pretty much all of the control I expect, at least across GNU/Linux, >> UNIX, and MS Windows - I can't vouch for others. >> >> >> [If you do want to try the code I use, just to get an idea of what >> I mean, look here: http://www.emacswiki.org/OneOnOneEmacs. >> But again, I'm *not* proposing such code as the solution or even >> as *a* solution to the problem of easily doing with frames what >> you do with Emacs windows. This is code that I use to try to >> overcome the problem, imperfectly. That's all.] >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 8 >> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 16:54:54 +0100 >> From: "Gian Uberto Lauri" >> To: Drew Adams >> Cc: Raffaele Ricciardi , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, >> Gian Uberto Lauri >> Subject: RE: When do you prefer frames instead of windows? >> Message-ID: <21620.42574.322318.854514@mail.eng.it> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> Drew Adams writes: >> > > > I would ask an opposite question: IF you could use Emacs frames >> > > > as easily as you can use Emacs windows, in what scenarios would >> > > > you prefer using Emacs windows, and why? >> > > >> > > ...mail reading, sql interaction and when working on two parts of >> > > the same file or two files with a macro... >> > > >> > > If the frames could really be used like windows, then, it could be >> > > that I would be comfortable with separate frames. >> > >> > That was the question. "IF you could use frames as easily as you >> > can use Emacs windows..." I certainly agree that currently you >> > cannot, especially with just vanilla Emacs. But if you could... >> >> Frankly, the answer is "I can't answer until I see it working". >> But it could be yes, especially if it changes my habits only slightly. >> >> > FYI, you can use bookmarks to similar effect. With Bookmark+ you >> > can just jump to this or that desktop bookmark, to change between >> > Emacs "workspaces", as defined by desktop.el. And it doesn't >> > matter whether you use one frame or 37 frames for such a workspace. >> > >> > http://www.emacswiki.org/BookmarkPlus#DesktopBookmarks >> >> I will give it a look, thank you! >> >> -- >> /\ ___ Ubuntu: ancient >> /___/\_|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_____ African word >> //--\| | \| | Integralista GNUslamico meaning "I can >> \/ coltivatore diretto di software not install >> gi? sistemista a tempo (altrui) perso... Debian" >> >> Warning: gnome-config-daemon considered more dangerous than GOTO >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> help-gnu-emacs mailing list >> help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org >> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs >> >> >> End of help-gnu-emacs Digest, Vol 144, Issue 66 >> *********************************************** >> > >