From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?B?U8O4cmVuIFBpbGfDpXJk?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Ctrl-[ ? Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 10:08:44 +0200 Message-ID: References: <08AC8151-5911-40FA-8B20-818B839D00AB@traduction-libre.org> <6F55E018-B15E-42B0-8794-21F55BBA23D3@traduction-libre.org> <34E3289C-10EE-4A23-AEE4-80D984DB2EDE@gnu.org> <6A538FF9-94C8-491D-B1B9-5C0D09FE7C39@acm.org> <838suesw93.fsf@gnu.org> <3580dbb9-73a8-d26a-5466-5799e3726c34@gmail.com> <83tvd2rd8b.fsf@gnu.org> <83sgsmr5c7.fsf@gnu.org> <83r286r4e6.fsf@gnu.org> <83pnnqr2a0.fsf@gnu.org> <83o93ar082.fsf@gnu.org> <409640b8-20f6-1795-1705-f907dec90dee@gmail.com> <83r285p4d1.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="147906"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment_Pit=2DClaudel?= , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 12 10:14:23 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hayOj-000cFS-7a for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 10:14:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57308 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hayOi-0000RI-5v for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 04:14:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51057) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hayJY-0006dr-Iv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 04:09:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hayJX-0005oV-H6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 04:09:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ed1-x532.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::532]:38303) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hayJV-0005mi-NN; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 04:08:57 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ed1-x532.google.com with SMTP id g13so24295347edu.5; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 01:08:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=jDZJr4E5ri6hyCjW5ef6Z9InTYdviGjL/OXaq662LTg=; b=rxHfv+WIEB/vwbnwIzm9MUd4HGb86gtquXV9LYM4JAMDDwjJEocKZdPXVkw+Y0YV/h PXncBFwZKd04Hxwst3qqiWlBuk/MS8Ja4BjhyuXdOtxC36J3XYo7bDMtVcwjeeWDYw41 +pPF/O0R0haKXzuubMZGPMEKH6fJHO9jBRguhsiRG+OLqEU6IKUJwwsmMH15hi/OhEVV fAZByKbXcYQ8HgK3hDedWtDyBWYje42dVzdCAnzYrUTHc7FXC+RLkhkR/zvBrcjBJ6Xu 2QaocLSBYYoOrNEbQRI8Yi9DiL92K07CjLSZTMoMbJbseb7pRYmRdK5nUc4JStwJZXYR s7cA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=jDZJr4E5ri6hyCjW5ef6Z9InTYdviGjL/OXaq662LTg=; b=QT9ATau+qVPAeQLp4TeedAo05bepEG8w+OT/+bvFCHaQPZ8PZA67tnkqVDPoTepIHc 2w5rZMbHdbijtIrygcVh8th74Quge0301eXQSCClY6O3D/C/Qjyd4KLhOJF29SpWAWKn fTTAJyiBRmQTHHn1amSkhsQbEQd6cQSynuiblkTA1bDSRDGhInKzDGGM73/5bdHu7b7+ uav2NwAlTeQG0zp1V9/Qwb30iB0STel88ayTGO2GafwucdAQqr9wZKk/Xty/zxNw4d28 YBKHKJPy3kLd2wTOiAJkdB0HWDseUOS34QXoEq7UJw+t8WnOYbMqObBgnbCKlCILhC+J 2WKw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXgQMjmcyaOg5hXtEuipKrh6XN0M2O7T7z0J+cNfhBpTLNFkUVO oFTYXS9vRWXWToTd+6uMTAeUZsOo9Jjf13bwSfXTlA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx7MGA+DVtd6fn7+pvbRcTI8/XyL9B8DiVgnHa0MlKQRXfbgY4fFX21rvnaNs2VZ46WT56avs2SwhenG8mXTfo= X-Received: by 2002:a50:b107:: with SMTP id k7mr32565048edd.193.1560326935592; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 01:08:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83r285p4d1.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4864:20::532 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:237449 Archived-At: On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 9:51 PM Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > From: Cl=C3=A9ment Pit-Claudel > > Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 11:02:12 -0400 > > > > >> (global-set-key (kbd "ESC") #'forward-char) > > >> > > >> =E2=80=A6and all that achieved was to break all keybindings starting= with meta. > > > > > > In what buffer? If there's a local binding, it will shadow the > > > global one, so to be sure rebind both. > > > > I *scratch* (so in emacs-lisp-mode). It does work in fundamental mode,= but it still breaks meta (M-x is undefined after redefining ESC) > > The original question was about redefining ESC. How to do that > without making Meta undefined is a separate issue. (ESC by default is > the prefix key of the Meta keymap, so it's a small wonder that > redefining ESC breaks Meta. You will have the same effect if you > redefine C-x: all the C-x sequences will stop working.) > So for a lot of users, using graphical Emacs, not knowing the intricacies of af tty the following is rather baffling: C-[ is ESC, ESC is Meta and Meta is Alt. (For a confusing definition of "is") This is one of the things that makes Emacs feel very archaic. I do believe that most users coming to Emacs during the last 5-10 years are using the graphical version. Yeah we should keep the ability to use both the tty version and the graphical version as is. But forcing this schema on everyone is not really beneficial.