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From: Philippe Vaucher <philippe.vaucher@gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: Adam Porter <adam@alphapapa.net>, Kyle Meyer <kyle@kyleam.com>,
	Jonas Bernoulli <jonas@bernoul.li>,
	Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>,
	Emacs developers <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: [ELPA] New package: transient
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:12:50 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAGK7Mr7i6uMH1JRnj2E1hY5vSwiGkVwQARLHq0Q_wMn7aBKP9Q@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <83tv12zjx1.fsf@gnu.org>

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1941 bytes --]

>
> > *
> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Association-Lists.html
> sometimes assoc,
> >  alist-get, assq, copy-alist. How am I supposed to use `C-h f alist TAB`
> to discover the function I want? I
> >  can't, I have to go to that webpage and read it all.
>
> I think "C-h d alist RET" is your friend.
>

You miss the central point of my argument. The problem is not that the doc
is hard to find, it's that I *have* to find it to know which are the
related functions.

It is much easier for the mind to think in terms of namespaces, here are
examples from other languages:

   - https://clojure.github.io/clojure/clojure.string-api.html all string
   functions stored under string
   - http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/cstring/ almost all string
   manipulation function start with "str"
   - https://ruby-doc.org/stdlib-2.4.1/libdoc/fileutils/rdoc/FileUtils.html all
   file manipulation function are stored in FileUtils::

I could go on but I think you should be able to understand my examples.

Once related functions are namespaced together, almost all tooling benefit
from it. No need to provide a manual grouping the unrelated functions
together, just document each function:

   - autocompletion can help you guess the right function.
   - searching for function names (C-h f) can help you find the right
   function.



> > *
> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/List-Elements.html
> sometimes named
> >  logically (nth, remove, append), sometimes named after implementation
> detail (car, cdr), and no grouping
> >  at all so I can't `C-h f list TAB`
>
> Also, the 'i' command in Info.
>
> But you said you didn't want to read manuals, so I'm not sure why the
> examples are from the manual.


Again you strawman my argument. Try to understand my central point, and
then reply to that instead of details of "how you do it right now and that
works for you".

Kind regards,
Philippe

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  parent reply	other threads:[~2020-04-29 13:12 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 238+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-04-28 13:01 [ELPA] New package: transient Jonas Bernoulli
     [not found] ` <jwv4kt3d1r8.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
     [not found]   ` <87v9ljo5d0.fsf@bernoul.li>
     [not found]     ` <jwvh7x3bfoe.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
     [not found]       ` <87ftcnxu5m.fsf@bernoul.li>
2020-04-29  8:29         ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-04-29  9:26           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-29  9:50             ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-04-29 10:05               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-29 10:17                 ` tomas
2020-04-29 10:33                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-29 10:52                     ` tomas
2020-04-30 12:44                       ` Arthur Miller
2020-04-30 13:28                         ` tomas
2020-04-30 14:26                           ` Namespacing Emacs's core (was: [ELPA] New package: transient) Stefan Monnier
2020-04-30 15:08                             ` tomas
2020-04-30 18:23                             ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-04-30 18:56                               ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-04-30 19:02                                 ` tomas
2020-04-30  2:30                   ` [ELPA] New package: transient Richard Stallman
2020-05-01  2:49                     ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-01  6:33                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-02  2:24                         ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-02  7:04                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-02  8:09                             ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-05-02  9:05                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-02  9:19                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-02 10:11                                   ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-05-02 10:33                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-02 10:56                                       ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-05-02 10:59                                         ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-05-02 11:09                                         ` Use elisp--xref-backend in *Apropos* and *Help* (Was Re: [ELPA] New package: transient) João Távora
2020-05-02 14:03                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-03  2:08                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-02 11:22                                         ` [ELPA] New package: transient Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-02 11:52                                           ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-05-02 12:08                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-02 12:09                                           ` 조성빈
2020-05-02 12:14                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-02 12:22                                               ` 조성빈
2020-05-02 12:54                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-02 17:33                                     ` Drew Adams
2020-05-04  3:07                                       ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-04 16:04                                         ` Drew Adams
2020-05-02  9:53                                 ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-05-02 10:39                                   ` João Távora
2020-05-02 11:10                                     ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-05-02 11:17                                       ` João Távora
2020-05-02 11:39                                         ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-05-02 12:02                                           ` João Távora
2020-05-02 12:11                                             ` 조성빈
2020-05-02 12:20                                               ` João Távora
2020-05-02 12:36                                                 ` 조성빈
2020-05-02 12:59                                                   ` João Távora
2020-05-02 13:02                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-02 13:12                                                     ` João Távora
2020-05-02 12:28                                               ` tomas
2020-05-02 12:22                                           ` tomas
2020-05-03  3:43                                           ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-03  4:24                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-04  3:08                                               ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-02 17:48                                         ` Drew Adams
2020-05-02 14:50                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-02 14:57                                       ` João Távora
2020-05-02 17:42                                     ` Drew Adams
2020-05-02 10:54                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-02 11:47                                     ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-05-02 12:04                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-02 14:56                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-02 15:37                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-02 15:51                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-02 16:09                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-02 13:59                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-02 14:10                                   ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-05-02 14:12                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-02 14:26                                     ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-05-02 15:29                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-02 15:43                                         ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-05-02 16:05                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-02 16:12                                             ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-05-02 16:26                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-02 16:42                                                 ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-05-02 18:27                                       ` Drew Adams
2020-05-03  3:43                                       ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-03  7:47                                         ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-05-03 19:46                                           ` Drew Adams
2020-05-03 21:18                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-03 22:04                                               ` João Távora
2020-05-04  0:41                                               ` Drew Adams
2020-05-04  3:09                                           ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-02 16:48                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-02 17:17                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-02 18:10                                         ` 조성빈
2020-05-02 18:30                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-02 18:37                                             ` 조성빈
2020-05-02 18:45                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-02 19:12                                                 ` 조성빈
2020-05-02 19:44                                               ` Drew Adams
2020-05-02 18:32                                           ` Yuan Fu
2020-05-02 20:41                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-02 20:39                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-02 21:00                                           ` João Távora
2020-05-02 21:53                                             ` Drew Adams
2020-05-02 22:13                                               ` João Távora
2020-05-04  3:07                                             ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-02 21:27                                           ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-05-03 14:45                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-03 15:03                                             ` João Távora
2020-05-03 15:11                                               ` Joost Kremers
2020-05-03 15:28                                               ` C-h f and C-h v (was: [ELPA] New package: transient) Stefan Monnier
2020-05-03 17:41                                                 ` João Távora
2020-05-03 17:44                                                   ` João Távora
2020-05-03 16:21                                               ` [ELPA] New package: transient Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-03 15:17                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-03 16:32                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-03 21:13                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-04 13:52                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-04 15:14                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-04 15:55                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-04 18:41                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-04 18:58                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-03 16:23                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-03 16:47                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-03 17:04                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-03 17:29                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-03 17:42                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-03 18:58                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-04  0:04                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-03 19:49                                                       ` João Távora
2020-05-03 23:47                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-04  1:01                                                           ` João Távora
2020-05-04  1:28                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-04 18:05                                                               ` João Távora
2020-05-04 14:24                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-04 15:23                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-04 16:00                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-04 17:31                                                               ` Drew Adams
2020-05-04  1:13                                                     ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-05-04 14:22                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-05  8:23                                                         ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-05-05 14:48                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-05 15:39                                                             ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-05-05 16:13                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-05 16:33                                                                 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-05-05 15:44                                                             ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-05-05 16:15                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-05 16:40                                                                 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-05-05  8:27                                                         ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-05-03 21:04                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-04 13:51                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-03 16:50                                               ` João Távora
2020-05-03 16:54                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-03 17:43                                                   ` João Távora
2020-05-04  3:08                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-02 18:57                                       ` Drew Adams
2020-05-02 19:15                                         ` 조성빈
2020-05-02 19:59                                           ` Drew Adams
2020-05-02 20:47                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-02 14:22                                   ` João Távora
2020-04-29 13:12                 ` Philippe Vaucher [this message]
2020-04-29 13:42                   ` tomas
2020-04-29 13:50                     ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-04-29 17:03                       ` Robert Pluim
2020-04-29 19:25                         ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-04-29 17:51                       ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-04-29 19:24                         ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-04-29 13:53                     ` Stefan Kangas
2020-04-29 14:01                       ` tomas
2020-04-29 14:20                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-29 15:25                     ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-04-30 18:13                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-30 18:19                         ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-04-30 18:41                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-30 19:26                             ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-04-30 19:34                               ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-04-30 22:47                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-30 22:20                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-01  3:13                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-01  3:15                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-01 15:36                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-01 16:05                                     ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-05-02  2:27                               ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-02  7:07                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-02  8:06                                 ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-05-02 17:08                                   ` Drew Adams
2020-04-30 19:31                             ` Stefan Monnier
2020-04-29 17:27                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-04-29 19:01                     ` tomas
2020-04-29 19:31                     ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-04-30 11:51                       ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-04-30 12:38                         ` tomas
2020-04-30 17:30                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-04-30 17:53                             ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-04-30 18:42                               ` tomas
2020-04-30 18:41                             ` tomas
2020-04-30 18:14                           ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-04-30 18:58                             ` tomas
2020-04-30 19:13                               ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-04-30 19:33                                 ` tomas
2020-04-30 20:54                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-04-30 22:46                                   ` chad
2020-05-02  2:27                                     ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-01  8:23                                   ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-05-02  2:24                                   ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-30 22:04                               ` Keeping it kind Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-05-01  7:17                                 ` tomas
2020-05-01  8:31                                 ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-05-02  2:24                                   ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-02  2:27                                 ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-01  2:51                       ` [ELPA] New package: transient Richard Stallman
2020-04-29 20:02                     ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-04-30  1:08                     ` Stefan Monnier
2020-04-29 13:19                 ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-04-29 14:28                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-29 14:51                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-30  2:28                   ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-29 13:32               ` Stefan Monnier
2020-04-29 13:43                 ` Philippe Vaucher
2020-04-29 14:17                 ` Yuan Fu
2020-04-29 14:19                   ` Yuan Fu
2020-04-30  2:28                   ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-29 15:31                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-29 15:48                   ` Stefan Monnier
2020-04-29 16:05                     ` Drew Adams
2020-05-01 17:38                 ` João Távora
2020-05-01 18:03                   ` Stefan Monnier
2020-04-30  2:30               ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-29 14:56           ` Drew Adams
2020-04-29 12:52         ` Adam Porter
2020-04-30  2:29 ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-30 10:50   ` Phil Sainty
2020-05-01  2:52     ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-01  5:36       ` Phil Sainty
2020-05-02  2:25         ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-02  2:30           ` T.V Raman
2020-05-01 10:40       ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-05-01 15:16         ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-05-02  2:24           ` Richard Stallman
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2020-04-30 11:43 Zhu Zihao
     [not found] <<87368npxw4.fsf@bernoul.li>
     [not found] ` <<jwv4kt3d1r8.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
     [not found]   ` <<87v9ljo5d0.fsf@bernoul.li>
     [not found]     ` <<jwvh7x3bfoe.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
     [not found]       ` <<87ftcnxu5m.fsf@bernoul.li>
     [not found]         ` <<CAGK7Mr52_xBMYnPTO4XZ5EqvMji0pKD_YmqKHQzVo2HMCXd0KA@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]           ` <<83y2qezlpd.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]             ` <<CAGK7Mr57NeMeXk5kT4fqPUGP_C1y9g8XfL8S4oXN=w=Hy8MJEA@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]               ` <<83tv12zjx1.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                 ` <<CAGK7Mr7i6uMH1JRnj2E1hY5vSwiGkVwQARLHq0Q_wMn7aBKP9Q@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                   ` <<837dxyz83p.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                     ` <<CAGK7Mr50tQ+DeWvxT7O6E7Pm0jg7TFCxhS-iMeW03pgBcp8Lhw@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                       ` <<978f970b-b5c2-bd83-39da-f632d069d7d5@yandex.ru>
     [not found]                         ` <<CAGK7Mr5-sYDJBWxeSE6VoAJkYxLgffDkJPRv9g7cd9qME0nLEw@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                           ` <<98ab19cf-680b-9cd2-7c42-89dd0b2f470a@yandex.ru>
     [not found]                             ` <<CAGK7Mr5Qu-4iKvZuWmA0uswUrmZYgQmv4Dw=CibRjwUk1PggUw@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                               ` <<E1jUhsZ-0006mV-Rb@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]                                 ` <<83y2qau86i.fsf@gnu.org>
2020-05-02 16:51                                   ` Drew Adams
     [not found]                 ` <<20200429101755.GF24737@tuxteam.de>
     [not found]                   ` <<E1jTyxu-0008FM-LM@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]                     ` <<E1jULk7-0007ZA-OQ@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]                       ` <<838sicw4do.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                         ` <<E1jUhpj-00064u-VY@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]                           ` <<83zhaqu89z.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                             ` <<CAGK7Mr48xznD4uc0zxDRqUrYGbsWU4dg2t_CfnpKipzV7_-xbg@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                               ` <<83sggiu2p9.fsf@gnu.org>
2020-05-02 17:16                                 ` Drew Adams
     [not found]                                 ` <<83r1w2u20y.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                   ` <<CAGK7Mr7z+L+1Ziptjvc8wBmZDooLfonuL3VOC8OGex+z1d7Oqg@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                                     ` <<83lfmatym6.fsf@gnu.org>
2020-05-02 17:36                                       ` Drew Adams

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