From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Philippe Vaucher Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [ELPA] New package: transient Date: Fri, 1 May 2020 10:23:18 +0200 Message-ID: References: <83tv12zjx1.fsf@gnu.org> <20200429172739.GB4002@ACM> <20200430115108.GA4287@ACM> <20200430123855.GA1444@tuxteam.de> <20200430185819.GC16852@tuxteam.de> <20200430205440.GB4287@ACM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000057db5505a491e679" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="61074"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: tomas@tuxteam.de, Emacs developers To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri May 01 10:29:33 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jUR37-000Fok-1f for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 01 May 2020 10:29:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60040 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUR36-0000uF-0A for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 01 May 2020 04:29:32 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37408) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUR1t-0008TA-PF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2020 04:28:51 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUQxX-0005js-OB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2020 04:28:17 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf1-x131.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::131]:45785) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUQxX-0005c1-AE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2020 04:23:47 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf1-x131.google.com with SMTP id f8so3363414lfe.12 for ; Fri, 01 May 2020 01:23:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=a1TSEQ1t1gFMdzpQ7W4sg3YIbLsMU95oOeBDDNYMMWQ=; b=j+7J08WgRaaNP7sFGrBlxocPYO3h9Yb9+o4Q5QrDpLi5VGMsbKnKaDqf28RNYjWGF2 fnbFWkVYW4iOP54rGwE5QGRw9ady+KmdbYiMXKC9myJWuRQ0DMXh9tMrVR/S11BGEpI+ S2fNJompC7LprIp86O8ZNIAbiVCOCah/vuQi+CV7kboVDwgwus8IExpxaHuAeaebwM68 ZVIJSCn8iGY/2DxVosY0oWs6VqUeVUFol8FEUvePfD1bikaPgqo+TW0WCneGoRT2d3wT 2gNfdablTt0p4/GM5viz/fqopsPFiB9vY/rnJIRZSW3ZQKCkT0aUderpJbYUcN5m9V3J SSTw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=a1TSEQ1t1gFMdzpQ7W4sg3YIbLsMU95oOeBDDNYMMWQ=; b=YYxKfRSNYBUsJTdVrhVRAHwk6BwuwAmzKguj8TSCnsF4XH66P0C49HmWQY/Pkr9YZH 7myFwtMGYNcQAzv6/AzJHzN4xpiN3Ii7ZQdaOKwH38vYUw1mNIQIF2YeEMBp3bqdVx2y ZZvTHXnqegfTsPRlBhHyT17iQtt0sJTbBjfEkNUsh1jTkGPxZ02FXUUamcxgD9Is63VJ f2Mp2qt/PXwSTYAk/7Lg13mbY6THmmIwqFr20XS8S0Zh4+ffGitu5QiOCmen/8w7vCQ0 uLvWXO3UlwqsmkpYJ2IJpD0iHP2FaiZoWoaoCxza43cWCIdKnHhs5JhfT9zEYpT6n1kC poMQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubGmmMnxdqQs7U+Sfw+QbooyATjKUxfdnMb3nApQ5kRfl6uBJNl lwm2rVbd7nIDWaG4EYRO6r5ccVAVnca42QPUpgA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLDfbh6HIe4Swg6IQEDFcQlsLYqJyLe0f43P/NTn/ICaIwyvgQOoY5ghrMpNhAFSP+ZBBIZT36vFgKcoSFPMfw= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:53a:: with SMTP id o26mr1847788lfc.111.1588321425282; Fri, 01 May 2020 01:23:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20200430205440.GB4287@ACM> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::131; envelope-from=philippe.vaucher@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x131.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: [-] PROGRAM ABORT : Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). Location : parse_addr6(), p0f-client.c:67 X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4864:20::131 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:248298 Archived-At: --00000000000057db5505a491e679 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > Yes, you're right sorry I was steaming. The fact that Alan Mackenzie > > never apologized for his ugly behavior left me with a taste of revenge, > > I'd fix that. > > First of all, let's note that your English is so good that you're either > a native speaker of it (as I am), or might as well be. > Thanks for the compliment. My monther tongue is french, my mother is german so I was more enclined toward german when younger. I learnt english at school and did a 3 months solo-trip in australia where I had this epiphany where english "clicked" and started to think in english, so yes because of that I'm able to switch my brain to english mode pretty easily and because I code and read in english every day this is more or less kept up to date all the time. That said, I'm sure you'll find frenchism in many of my sentences ;-) Also when I think in english I tend to cut much more corners than in french, given it's a more technical straight-to-the-point language. Maybe it's harder to be nuanced in english than in french? > You know full well the difference between saying "we CAN make aliases to > the old names" and "we COULD make aliases to the old names". You wrote > the first, thus suggesting you were about to stomp ahead and do it. > I both french and english I don't find this distinction very important. I understand it's important for you so yes, I should have said "could". But for me, "can" it itself implies a possibility. Also note that this was a followup to another message where we explored what could be done, it was not my main argument nor a proposal. > You also understand full well the difference between "never apologized" > and "hasn't apologized". So you reject any apology from me in advance, > because you didn't get it within your own rather tight time scale. I'll > apologise anyway. > I'm surprised with this one... In french we'd say "Jusqu'=C3=A0 pr=C3=A9sen= t, il ne s'est jamais excus=C3=A9.". Hum yes, ok the "jamais" is maybe a but superfl= uous, "Il ne s'est pas excus=C3=A9" is better. When I wrote that I had in mind that you sent several messages further holding your position instead of simply admiting that you overreacted, and that a little sign in that direction would do wonders. Now that you have done it we are fine, thanks for that. > My post, the objectionable one, opened up a debate which had to take > place, and might well not have done so without it. You weren't the only > person who was "steaming". What I saw was a relative newcomer to the > group (sorry, I still don't know your past and present) proposing to turn > Emacs Lisp upside down for some uncertain benefit on an uncertain > timescale, and not about to wait on any objections. > I understand I might have appeared as proposing to turn Emacs Lisp upside down, sorry for not being clear enough. > My thanking you this morning for your response was quite sincere. You > could quite easily have just ignored my post. > > Nevertheless, I apologise for that post (not for my "behavior"), both to > you and to the group, in that it was too personal and too aggressive, and > imputed motives to yourself which were unjustified. Thanks! Glad we leveled it out. Philippe --00000000000057db5505a491e679 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Yes, you're right sorry I was steaming. The fac= t that Alan Mackenzie
> never apologized for his ugly behavior left me with a taste of revenge= ,
> I'd fix that.

First of all, let's note that your English is so good that you're e= ither
a native speaker of it (as I am), or might as well be.

Thanks for the compliment. My monther tongue is french, my = mother is german so I was more enclined=C2=A0toward german when younger.

I learnt english at school and did a 3 months solo-t= rip in australia where I had this epiphany where english "clicked"= ; and started to think in english, so yes because of that I'm able to s= witch my brain to english mode pretty easily and because I code and read in= english every day this is more or less kept up to date all the time.
=

That said, =C2=A0I'm sure you'll find frenchism= in many of my sentences ;-)

Also when I think in = english I tend to cut much more corners than in french, given it's a mo= re technical straight-to-the-point language. Maybe it's harder to be nu= anced in english than in french?
=C2=A0
You know full well the difference between say= ing "we CAN make aliases to
the old names" and "we COULD make aliases to the old names".= =C2=A0 You wrote
the first, thus suggesting you were about to stomp ahead and do it.

I both french and english I don't find thi= s distinction very important. I understand it's important for you so ye= s, I should have said "could". But for me, "can" it its= elf implies a possibility. Also note that this was a followup=C2=A0to anoth= er message where we explored what could be done, it was not my main argumen= t nor a proposal.

=C2=A0
You also understand full well the difference = between "never apologized"
and "hasn't apologized".=C2=A0 So you reject any apology from= me in advance,
because you didn't get it within your own rather tight time scale.=C2= =A0 I'll
apologise anyway.

I'm surprised wit= h this one... In french we'd say "Jusqu'=C3=A0 pr=C3=A9sent, i= l ne s'est jamais excus=C3=A9.". Hum yes, ok the "jamais"= ; is maybe a but superfluous, "Il ne s'est pas excus=C3=A9" i= s better.

When I wrote that I had in mind that you= sent several messages further holding your position instead of simply admi= ting that you overreacted, and that a little sign in that direction would d= o wonders.

Now that you have done it we are fine, = thanks for that.

=C2=A0
My post, the objectionable one, opened up a de= bate which had to take
place, and might well not have done so without it.=C2=A0 You weren't th= e only
person who was "steaming".=C2=A0 What I saw was a relative newcom= er to the
group (sorry, I still don't know your past and present) proposing to tu= rn
Emacs Lisp upside down for some uncertain benefit on an uncertain
timescale, and not about to wait on any objections.
I understand I might have appeared as proposing to turn Emacs = Lisp upside down, sorry for not being clear enough.

=C2=A0
My thanking= you this morning for your response was quite sincere.=C2=A0 You
could quite easily have just ignored my post.

Nevertheless, I apologise for that post (not for my "behavior"), = both to
you and to the group, in that it was too personal and too aggressive, and imputed motives to yourself which were unjustified.

Thanks! Glad we leveled it out.

Philippe= =C2=A0
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