From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Philippe Vaucher Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: lldb support Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 10:44:32 +0100 Message-ID: References: <20161107150552.20e98985@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <20161107220815.606cd583@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <6c239d49-a92c-1495-7121-4808295a4fc2@dancol.org> <735f8965-609a-d0c2-82bc-19a2393186b6@dancol.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113d0ad420d9e80541035844 X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1478857517 26845 195.159.176.226 (11 Nov 2016 09:45:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 09:45:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Perry E. Metzger" , Daniel Colascione , Emacs developers To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 11 10:45:13 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c58OU-0006Oc-P8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 10:45:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51597 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c58OX-00030p-S6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 04:45:13 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49908) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c58OQ-0002xp-NG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 04:45:08 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c58OP-0000U2-J2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 04:45:06 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-ua0-x233.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400c:c08::233]:36501) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c58ON-0000Sm-Tc; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 04:45:03 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-ua0-x233.google.com with SMTP id b35so9094862uaa.3; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 01:45:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=kFPzQJOId2H7xaFVfar9iRX0hrREzNMMJ4PNq+ZWq0k=; b=OSEcpw/ueY2Oq/EM2cg0pGlQ8SgiYKu1G/YeX/9TZAQjGDsxbCfUPdaaVDHyV9isQQ 7STnK7NVWQpkwVp6KiTRs2iU8NhzYf7FrPqP0heRJA5R/0+HFp3UPGNlQe0/Z8Aww04s G9+tKRIVYog8x9dLhUUh0usbeR1asKe563EWxirupkcpR9ESy+mZZ/ieTD8OGfqG3mba eNM++li3kZiDI5PWb6vNwz++sdN5Hi/CqGB+ZK54hatoW4aJ4/IlqSrv+Uc6okKa12OX /DMbJn8MwZU9oUCsEzrn67OkUVa2cQTfABPE8klvKLtz6lriFvWE9ugA2OZM6/ObTolS GJVQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=kFPzQJOId2H7xaFVfar9iRX0hrREzNMMJ4PNq+ZWq0k=; b=aSI35EbBY7w4QqXDIlRDajvvuf9bPbuqLoshJuPX1Cer3yf1dufHB8fhZV7+To6vil vD3ioKPqA7yYlI+u1kXnRxAwe0wONJ2bqX0Ed71tnTa+RY9WWV2EojyyVDTG5JTdxreJ kcjnGAkhDYIwqtwCbvER6/2woW16IYlyGfDUPstfMCKaDH6KaPtOvoFmjHeVI9Pn5vgn 3h0rFnB+PfmvNDKeodol9kvv/QSi7QBLdAouZIt1hJsncrs0MfBdd+1baVqOP55Sszh5 rmPW3d+ZscYrCX3kALr7FxqfE+4AyZ4TFuCmutI6YZh7PH4BKup2zhmAYZelvj4D7zE+ wRbg== X-Gm-Message-State: ABUngvefIQt8ciLEJTKCa/3CA3OH48PGq2dI/z7R7sHwJNDWhbd1BlJy85IwYJRpOk063AINfitl7ED5ymBoaw== X-Received: by 10.176.0.87 with SMTP id 81mr1038001uai.73.1478857502806; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 01:45:02 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.103.72.70 with HTTP; Fri, 11 Nov 2016 01:44:32 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400c:c08::233 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:209339 Archived-At: --001a113d0ad420d9e80541035844 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Your argument disregards the important fact that LLDB is part > of a project that aims to replace many important GNU packages, > and its success is the GNU Project's loss. > I don't think the aim is to replace GNU packages, but to give everyone better tools. Without the GNU packages none of it would have been possible. If people find the alternative better it should be intencive to improve the GNU packages... not to try to find ways of preventing them to use the alternative (which is the wrong answer in my honest opinion, it's a sort of vendor lockin). You have to understand that these sort of tactics simply don't work: none of these users will switch to GDB just because Emacs does not support the alternative. They will simply write the code in emacs and debug it outside emacs, so the result is actually the opposite of what you want (the users using GNU tools all the time). > I think that that is not important to you, but it is very > important for the GNU Project. > I don't think that promoting the GNU project should be more important than having Emacs support free software, especially for something most Emacs user would expect it to do. I understand that GNU draws the line about commercial software tho, and I understand the conflict of interests in this affair. It's not easy. Philippe --001a113d0ad420d9e80541035844 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Your argument disregards the = important fact that LLDB is part
of a project that aims to replace many important GNU packages,
and its success is the GNU Project's loss.

I don't think the aim is to replace GNU packages, but to give e= veryone better tools. Without the GNU packages none of it would have been p= ossible.

If people find the alternative better it = should be intencive to improve the GNU packages... not to try to find ways = of preventing them to use the alternative (which is the wrong answer in my = honest opinion, it's a sort of vendor lockin).

You have to understand that these sort of tactics simply don't work: n= one of these users will switch to GDB just because Emacs does not support t= he alternative. They will simply write the code in emacs and debug it outsi= de emacs, so the result is actually the opposite of what you want (the user= s using GNU tools all the time).

=C2=A0
I think that that is not impor= tant to you, but it is very
important for the GNU Project.

I don= 9;t think that promoting the GNU project should be more important than havi= ng Emacs support free software, especially for something most Emacs user wo= uld expect it to do.

I understand that GNU dra= ws the line about commercial software tho, and I understand the conflict of= interests in this affair. It's not easy.

Phil= ippe
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