From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Philippe Vaucher Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [ELPA] New package: transient Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 11:50:08 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87368npxw4.fsf@bernoul.li> <87v9ljo5d0.fsf@bernoul.li> <87ftcnxu5m.fsf@bernoul.li> <83y2qezlpd.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003401d905a46ae147" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="53686"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Adam Porter , Kyle Meyer , Jonas Bernoulli , Stefan Monnier , Emacs developers To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 29 11:51:27 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jTjNH-000DtI-Fv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 11:51:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53726 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTjNG-0005kQ-ID for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 05:51:26 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35898) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTjMa-0004mA-5h for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 05:50:44 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTjMZ-0004Zc-Je for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 05:50:43 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf1-x134.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::134]:35286) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTjMU-0004YT-3n; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 05:50:38 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf1-x134.google.com with SMTP id r17so1124598lff.2; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 02:50:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Cq/85Q8Vj2IVlgBV6mpetnhFM5OmT9jhcbzdCevoIa8=; b=UYLBQw8tRnWr/2Is6quNpxsCA/Xxn+ohfI12YkJ1Z9mGiTjfy5Vx1kg0+eEhanmaD1 ScbbyH4Lw1DwxrsBtTbLOxKUxyqUOhJp3Y/FWA6b3pwQ/KzM+OpaTWPQa63HEO1RCja9 Pf4PMXG77vS8PRjOrMTDPa3TjzbCaHLrUElht+dstVFXc9rISNStzjdNickeE5W1AYX/ WEwVy3As2aXxgURTQ7ScikwInrvDK/t8Y1RMh6K1TL0R5fh+qATSlece0QVTNfGUehB1 u3x3RL3+HXsn31jS9KeMK1RAHt88Ko9+plz9Mt0Qvqjdfv0yR5cjnkRkFBNfEua0QD0j gJtw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Cq/85Q8Vj2IVlgBV6mpetnhFM5OmT9jhcbzdCevoIa8=; b=krnoERV55hywjP3I2Xpd4X27DFn8WTDqRyrn97edpQa/BU3QGpSvUMvTbsOi0/MRgd l57IFfLvvmAfJWwShw709VML8IVravEcLp/07O2wIZ6SAFLkQy3Kiyh2dA/q7FO7sg/k 1yuU3zk5Q9oGcF/mV3c9bFgHJ8MqZStj1xANnI1ywBtUI2NEu/oaLby/BZtUtlzLUNpA 3emsnWNM55Q5b8nbsLEpcNEFrd/SSQ3/1Vvh9/EXArrQBtdv/LVA7yZk9VmmdDb0CUF1 PiTJ0LMS1TKTeBlZ1dpCBuUqLHi8FQdPdMJV/hvKLSFgvvpB2yRQqWiTUyeA51a/TTlN f0JQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZKfEHgjphhn8Gs8GuubVxaH87QydXh2y3Ylfdv9kC/gcnp/aqE FBKmw6OYR3uRqluGN8xBEEkRD+ZLLQ6Yuf4nggvGy1btEno= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJyuwnSJ2BF7TkPebLfyGIU4gQjSvO2ZNHhds4yPpL/5KQ6RiRD3GSdO4mvkLsImkkXgw2r9NnmnynqSQsTqTM= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4832:: with SMTP id 18mr22405152lft.162.1588153835321; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 02:50:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83y2qezlpd.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::134; envelope-from=philippe.vaucher@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x134.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: [-] PROGRAM ABORT : Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). Location : parse_addr6(), p0f-client.c:67 X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4864:20::134 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:248101 Archived-At: --0000000000003401d905a46ae147 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > Overall I think it's a shame that the Emacs api wasn't designed with > discoverability/consistency in mind > > Would you mind elaborate on this deficiency? I don't think I quite > understand the complaint. It's hard to really criticize because Emacs was designed ages ago. My point is simply this one: when I look at https://github.com/magnars/dash.el, https://github.com/NicolasPetton/seq.el or https://github.com/magnars/s.el I can immediately understand how the library works and how to achieve things. I can also easily use `C-h f` to find about the function I want. In Emacs, parts of it are designed following the same principle, but a lot of it isn't: - https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Association-Lists.html sometimes assoc, alist-get, assq, copy-alist. How am I supposed to use `C-h f alist TAB` to discover the function I want? I can't, I have to go to that webpage and read it all. - https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/List-Elements.html sometimes named logically (nth, remove, append), sometimes named after implementation detail (car, cdr), and no grouping at all so I can't `C-h f list TAB` Kind regards, Philippe --0000000000003401d905a46ae147 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Overall I think it's a shame that the Emacs api= wasn't designed with discoverability/consistency in mind

Would you mind elaborate on this deficiency?=C2=A0 I don't think I quit= e
understand the complaint.

It's hard to = really criticize because Emacs was designed ages ago.

<= div>My point is simply this one: when I look at=C2=A0https://github.com/magnars/dash.el,=C2=A0https://github.com/NicolasPe= tton/seq.el=C2=A0or=C2=A0ht= tps://github.com/magnars/s.el=C2=A0I can=C2=A0immediately=C2=A0understa= nd how the library works and how to achieve things. I can also easily use `= C-h f` to find about the function I want.

In Emacs= , parts of it are designed following the same principle, but a lot of it is= n't:
Ki= nd regards,
Philippe
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