From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Philippe Vaucher Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Preview: portable dumper Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 10:00:28 +0100 Message-ID: References: <047a67ec-9e29-7e4e-0fb0-24c3e59b5886@dancol.org> <83zikjxt1j.fsf@gnu.org> <8360n6ruzu.fsf@gnu.org> <834m2nplmb.fsf@gnu.org> <83inr2oje6.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114401263726750542a92d7c X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1480669315 17038 195.159.176.226 (2 Dec 2016 09:01:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 09:01:55 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Stefan Monnier , Emacs developers To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 02 10:01:50 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cCjj3-0003WF-Gd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 02 Dec 2016 10:01:49 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33266 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cCjj7-0000Mx-Ho for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 02 Dec 2016 04:01:53 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58350) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cCjiO-0000Me-2A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Dec 2016 04:01:12 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cCjiI-0005af-BG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Dec 2016 04:01:08 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-vk0-x229.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400c:c05::229]:33219) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cCjiG-0005Zj-LR; Fri, 02 Dec 2016 04:01:00 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-vk0-x229.google.com with SMTP id 137so142808512vkl.0; Fri, 02 Dec 2016 01:01:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=l/KV5kK4jnsIUPD3WT8v3RRfmGbWc3HS7UPFp1yH894=; b=sSLRjwklIMKK/5+XJfnvWNlYr5Qk0YBAx1BDZcRsor3kTOeIa1iTBgUoRDUAtI8Qr3 y2//qIewVe9KgB6EGB3J6ZEKnngkj86+cYID7Q8NVik/PramU3W3TtpyDMcllicEdKdm CiTz5P1WWShFjcD0OpugseKXTaa5PxdZylG1Q29+jSHV9DqmiPNeV4MsizZ5ECn4WWb0 tJK5FDwtb7wPjKpBzRYe2VlJSSTyefmsiXYnf/QM57PQ9yGWsKoVScGFoAYTLn53uiC5 Z8+t4QHLaqYfZ9Av4qQo/t3lWVVa4+yt1zZMPO59g2INbUw4QBu1jNWID/uuFDUm0I8x hMnw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=l/KV5kK4jnsIUPD3WT8v3RRfmGbWc3HS7UPFp1yH894=; b=ZGnDQi9kZX+Ozpn86wvjWJsLdig0soDFFLm+H+OjlWid1/tPFWf3JT7KFACRSsKnwe pViqDGtFDPhisnedzoV/bsVbm7xe+n3ZzpZDEA0JVe3RFsm0kvO15wSp/sfvZQfa0WH1 H8ue+qyHGVVIoTCRDtFt+j/D8yn2Oytk9E+0K5cz3X+paMkym8BJMHLSxIzd9KZGI9xS jy9V3rhgHAQsRAkV2NCPCBkwxdfa2yO7ByE9l0ZSDrtLh78GIVo5o0zVFDeyHSmrDGxi sU4sT+BbvqZFmwZBG2BL9ykak7vXtWkSneWRq0S3raulpsptRmvwveZFEBKJ55SwSglI zPIw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC021vwEnzEmfv510mZMAruc/FiQTdMhU5hf3g+mGlPg4K+Y5ivbGVcnUl21QZHQta6x3tJ56L9LHPeXQGQ== X-Received: by 10.31.52.5 with SMTP id b5mr16768328vka.65.1480669259045; Fri, 02 Dec 2016 01:00:59 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.103.125.149 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Dec 2016 01:00:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83inr2oje6.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400c:c05::229 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:209911 Archived-At: --001a114401263726750542a92d7c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Once again, if those ideas seem strange, let alone incorrect, to > you-all out there, just say the word, and I will step down. Then I > can stop worrying about the portable dumper, and you can stop worrying > about my strange ideas. Emacs is not my private project; I'm only > entitled to promote my ideas if the others either support them or > trust me to DTRT. Please decide which one is it, and let's move on. > Eli, I think you are doing a fantastic job. The only problem that seems to happen from time to time is that the discussions starts getting personal and ends up with people saying threats like "if you put my code in a branch I will fork Emacs" or "if you don't agree with my ideas I will step down", which is just a way of saying "my way or the highway". Using these rethorics is not constructive and doesn't do anyone any good. To me it looks like the only real problem here is communication, we should all argue less and try to put ourselves in the other's schoes. To Daniel, it's important that his work does not bitrot somewhere like the concurrency branch did. It's also important that he feels there's a strong chance of his code getting merged before he works more on it. To Eli, it's important to have Daniel's code more "production ready" (documentation, etc), and also to give the simpler implementation ideas a try to avoid having to switch/maintain different systems twice in a short period of time. Both needs are understandable and valid. Nobody is wrong here. To me it's clear that given the requirements, we can plan something that would satisfy both... for example. Daniel, we'll give other people one month to come up with a sketch of the alternative idea to see if it's feasible or not. If nothing comes up after one month, we'll start working on merging your branch. My 0.02$ Philippe --001a114401263726750542a92d7c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Once again, if those ideas seem strange, let alo= ne incorrect, to
you-all out there, just say the word, and I will step down.=C2=A0 Then I can stop worrying about the portable dumper, and you can stop worrying
about my strange ideas.=C2=A0 Emacs is not my private project; I'm only=
entitled to promote my ideas if the others either support them or
trust me to DTRT.=C2=A0 Please decide which one is it, and let's move o= n.

Eli, I think you are doing a fantast= ic job.

The only problem that seems to happen from= time to time is that the discussions starts getting personal and ends up w= ith people saying threats like "if you put my code in a branch I will = fork Emacs" or "if you don't agree with my ideas I will step = down", which is just a way of saying "my way or the highway"= . Using these rethorics is not constructive and doesn't do anyone any g= ood.

To me it looks like the only real problem her= e is communication, we should all argue less and try to put ourselves in th= e other's schoes.

To Daniel, it's importan= t that his work does not bitrot somewhere like the concurrency branch did. = It's also important that he feels there's a strong chance of his co= de getting merged before he works more on it.
To Eli, it's im= portant to have Daniel's code more "production ready" (docume= ntation, etc), and also to give the simpler implementation ideas a try to a= void having to switch/maintain different systems twice in a short period of= time.

Both needs are understandable and valid. No= body is wrong here.

To me it's clear that give= n the requirements, we can plan something that would satisfy both... for ex= ample.

<Eli> Daniel, we'll give other pe= ople one month to come up with a sketch of the alternative idea to see if i= t's feasible or not. If nothing comes up after one month, we'll sta= rt working on merging your branch.

My 0.02$
<= div>Philippe


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