From: Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@gmail.com>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>, help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: use-package
Date: Wed, 04 May 2016 03:33:45 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAFyQvY3xTa-pu95e=kT03_uJoeQ9HSpp=R0wfHMAoi6QVpQ=Hw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <jwvpot2eq9l.fsf-monnier+gmane.emacs.help@gnu.org>
>
> In my point of view, the job that use-package does is only useful when
> the corresponding package is poorly setup to start with.
> IOW, if use-package is helpful, usually it indicates a shortcoming in
> the package or in the way the package is installed.
>
That, or the user installing the package is just not completely aware of
implications of during (require 'PKG-NAME) for all the installed packages.
I can talk of myself that when I began using emacs, I simply did (require
'PKG-NAME) for any new package I installed, because sometimes I got errors
like undefined variable blah at emacs startup. And using the require
magically solved the problem.
For instance, we cannot do (add-to-list 'package-archives '("org" . "
http://orgmode.org/elpa/") t) before doing (require 'package). Well, this
is a valid case where we need to do require first as package-archives does
not autoload package.
At one point, it became a "style" to require all the installed packages. I
had never head of eval-after-load at that time. Even if I had heard, I
would have thought that that's probably for "advanced" emacs user and I as
a newbie probably doesn't need to learn or use that.
use-package adds a simply syntactic sugar that does that "advanced stuff"
under the hood.
Another useful function that use-package uses is run-with-idle-timer using
which you can lazy load a package which you typically don't care about
loading immediately at startup.. like yasnippet; by using the :defer
keyword in use-package.
I am not qualified enough to judge if yasnippet could have been coded
better so that I didn't need to lazy load it. But delaying loading this
package made a significant difference to my emacs startup, especially
because I save and load desktop with about 50-60 files open. I do not need
yasnippet to load the snippets for all the major modes in those 50-60 files
immediately at startup.
That's right. But that's already the case without doing any config at
> all (because org-mode is setup properly to start with), so you shouldn't
> need use-package for that.
>
That's correct. The syntactic sugar for eval-after-load applies here too.
(Also, it's easy to simply prevent loading of a package you suspect to be
misbehaving by adding :disabled keyword for that package's use-package
form. With that you prevent loading that package and also evaluating your
config for that package like keybindings, advices, overrides, wrapper
defuns, etc).
> I see use-package as having 2 benefits:
> - work around package shortcomings as described above.
> - help the user structure his .emacs configuration.
>
And also, get a new user acquaint themself to different ways by which a
package loading can be delayed using various use-package keywords like
:commands, :bind, :defer, :mode.
> I'd like to see those two parts separated, FWIW.
>
I don't understand why that is important.
--
--
Kaushal Modi
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2016-05-04 3:33 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 30+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2016-05-02 17:07 use-package Uwe Brauer
2016-05-02 18:47 ` use-package Kaushal Modi
2016-05-03 10:47 ` use-package Uwe Brauer
2016-05-03 14:01 ` use-package Kaushal Modi
2016-05-03 22:28 ` use-package Stefan Monnier
2016-05-04 3:33 ` Kaushal Modi [this message]
2016-05-04 12:09 ` use-package Stefan Monnier
2016-05-04 16:22 ` use-package Phillip Lord
2016-05-04 16:44 ` use-package Drew Adams
2016-05-05 13:34 ` use-package Phillip Lord
2016-05-05 14:00 ` use-package Drew Adams
2016-05-05 15:56 ` use-package Kaushal Modi
2016-05-05 16:12 ` use-package Drew Adams
2016-05-10 9:20 ` use-package Phillip Lord
2016-05-10 9:18 ` use-package Phillip Lord
2016-05-11 11:42 ` use-package Kaushal Modi
2016-05-12 21:04 ` use-package Phillip Lord
2016-05-13 11:56 ` use-package Stefan Monnier
2016-05-14 22:27 ` use-package Phillip Lord
2016-05-15 3:22 ` use-package Stefan Monnier
2016-05-13 15:38 ` use-package Drew Adams
2016-05-16 15:16 ` use-package Phillip Lord
2016-05-16 16:49 ` use-package Drew Adams
[not found] ` <mailman.2761.1463153947.7477.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2016-05-14 7:37 ` use-package Rusi
2016-05-10 9:13 ` use-package Phillip Lord
2016-05-05 9:51 ` use-package Uwe Brauer
2016-05-05 13:38 ` use-package Phillip Lord
2016-05-03 22:21 ` use-package Stefan Monnier
2016-05-05 10:15 ` use-package Uwe Brauer
2016-05-05 23:41 ` use-package Stefan Monnier
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