From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Kaushal Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6IEMteCA4IHNob3J0aGFuZHMgZm9yIOKJpCBhbmQg4oml?= Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 11:58:46 -0400 Message-ID: References: <871timg8fn.fsf@mbork.pl> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0160aa4c37e1300515e4944f X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1431446897 18344 80.91.229.3 (12 May 2015 16:08:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 16:08:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Paul Eggert , Artur Malabarba , Emacs developers , Stefan Monnier , Yuri Khan To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue May 12 18:08:03 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YsCiw-0006pk-56 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 12 May 2015 18:08:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43858 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YsCip-0002As-QL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 12 May 2015 12:07:55 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55660) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YsCae-0001bF-Tk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 May 2015 11:59:30 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YsCad-0004Va-NJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 May 2015 11:59:28 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yk0-x22d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4002:c07::22d]:34278) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YsCad-0004VW-HO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 May 2015 11:59:27 -0400 Original-Received: by ykft189 with SMTP id t189so4675821ykf.1 for ; Tue, 12 May 2015 08:59:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=64DKiDY6Mngs5YLxOq4ELPKtZ5JO6iVtsNgOEgBhiWk=; b=bzziJhPGp+69+v8em9gI5Kw8LSpKBuibuTM4gjVu6Hfx5qNAXJSmljnhOn5iXYZ3va pbk9082kipwRI/YGPZFZ9svNrEoA1O1qVTYi7X/mjx6OQG6GKaIKwiDEW+q625Q1Z33y /hAJYXM0dGXGoOMHGX95wnFXTXF9fEWqUZdq1xCsrd1YOlrwYxld3Y0EIyqYbryAxRFv BciNVBhTsnJE3CPhccnmUqLzMrb9VDcdUyn8T3nUgeaP/CWxxdzBslHHkCuLmKNFr9dR K569Ckr8EXNb7nBKDC0TMbuz30xEUsxpAJYQGJi4cTaNpi0CZlLLsIrWZWzdTQNeW4Gc 0hzg== X-Received: by 10.236.43.178 with SMTP id l38mr16225972yhb.82.1431446366968; Tue, 12 May 2015 08:59:26 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.13.198.2 with HTTP; Tue, 12 May 2015 08:58:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4002:c07::22d X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 12 May 2015 12:07:27 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:186456 Archived-At: --089e0160aa4c37e1300515e4944f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here's what I now have to put a clean ending to this thread (for anyone who might end up here while looking for something): (require 'iso-transl) ;; Add custom bindings to "C-x 8" map (dolist (binding '((">" . nil) ; First unbind ">" from the map (">=3D" . [?=E2=89=A5]) (">>" . [?=E2=89=AB]) (">\"" . [?=C2=BB]) (">'" . [?=E2=80=BA]) ("<" . nil) ; First unbind "<" from the map ("<=3D" . [?=E2=89=A4]) ("<<" . [?=E2=89=AA]) ("<\"" . [?=C2=AB]) ("<'" . [?=E2=80=B9]))) (define-key iso-transl-ctl-x-8-map (kbd (car binding)) (cdr binding))) -- Kaushal Modi On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 10:14 AM, Kaushal wrote: > In reply to Drew's email that seems to have started by mistake in a new > thread > > > And I'm wondering why we need to provide such "shortcuts". It is > > *trivial* for anyone to bind keys to insert any chars one uses often. > > I don't see how we're doing anyone any favors by this. > > > > What's so special about any particular set of Unicode chars that we > > should bother to offer a predefined set of bindings for them (even if > > turning on that set is optional)? Now we're even down to looking to > > bind =E2=89=AB or =C2=BB? How silly is that? (Well, I'm sure those ch= ars are > > very useful for some people - but those who need 'em can bind 'em.) > > > > Where's the beef? > > As I mentioned in the first email, I can easily bind those to what I want= . > > I was motivated to email about this because I found the binding "_<" for = =E2=89=A4 > a bit unnatural. In all the coding languages I used, =E2=89=A4 was always > represented as "<=3D" and so thought that that binding would make more se= nse. > > Then I realized that "<" was already taken for the =C2=AB and so we could= not > have the "<=3D" binding. > > And then the thread evolved as you see. > > As Stefan mentioned, the "<" binding was added at the time when probably > the other unicode characters were probably not popular. > > So this was just a little gesture to "upgrade" the out-of-box bindings fo= r > "C-x 8" since we are already setting a few default bindings for some > unicode characters. > > I am fine with this discussion ending here and I will go back to using a > little hydra with a bunch of unicode chars I use frequently. > > > -- > Kaushal Modi > > On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 6:13 PM, Stefan Monnier > wrote: > >> > I disagree. I use =C2=AB and =C2=BB from time to time, and I /never/ = wanted to >> > use =E2=89=AA or =E2=89=AB. >> >> FWIW I'm in the same situation. >> >> >> Stefan >> > > --089e0160aa4c37e1300515e4944f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Here's what I now have to pu= t a clean ending to this thread (for anyone who might end up here while loo= king for something):

(require 'iso-transl)
;; Add custom bindings to "C-x 8" map<= /div>
(dolist (binding '((">" = =C2=A0 . nil) ; First unbind ">" from the map
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0(">=3D" =C2=A0. [?=E2=89=A5])
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0(">>" =C2=A0. [?=E2=89=AB])
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0(">\"" . [?=C2=BB])
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(&= quot;>'" =C2=A0. [?=E2=80=BA])
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(&qu= ot;<" =C2=A0 . nil) ; First unbind "<" from the map
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0("<=3D" =C2=A0. [?=E2=89=A4])
=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0("<<" =C2=A0. [?=E2=89=AA])
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0("<\"" . [?=C2=AB])
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0("<'" =C2=A0. [?=E2=80=B9])))
=C2=A0 (define-key iso-transl-ctl-x-8-map (kbd (car bind= ing)) (cdr binding)))



--
Kaushal Modi

On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 10:14 AM, Kaushal <kaushal.modi@gmail.com> wrote:
In reply to Drew's = email that seems to have started by mistake in a new thread

> And I'm wonderi= ng why we need to provide such "shortcuts".=C2=A0 It is> *t= rivial* for anyone to bind keys to insert any chars one uses often.<= br style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px">> = I don't see how we're doing anyone any favors by this.
>
> What= 's so special about any particular set of Unicode chars that we<= br style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px">> = should bother to offer a predefined set of bindings for them (even if
>= ; turning on that set is optional)?=C2=A0 Now we're even down to lookin= g to
> bind =E2=89=AB or =C2=BB?=C2=A0 How silly is that?=C2=A0 (Well,= I'm sure those chars are
> very useful for some people - but thos= e who need 'em can bind 'em.)
>=C2=A0
> Where's the beef?

As I mentioned in the first email, I can easily bind those to what I= want.

I was motivated= to email about this because I found the binding "_<" for=C2= =A0=E2=89=A4 a bit unna= tural. In all the coding languages I used,=C2=A0=E2=89=A4 was always represented as "<=3D&= quot; and so thought that that binding would make more sense.
<= div class=3D"gmail_default">
Then I realized that "<" was already taken for t= he=C2=A0=C2=AB and so w= e could not have the "<=3D" binding.

And then the thread evolved as you see.

As Ste= fan mentioned, the "<" binding was added at the time when prob= ably the other unicode characters were probably not popular.
So this was just a little gesture to "upgrade" the o= ut-of-box bindings for "C-x 8" since we are already setting a few= default bindings for some unicode characters.

=
I= am fine with this discussion ending here and I will go back to using a lit= tle hydra with a bunch of unicode chars I use frequently.


--
Kaushal Modi

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 6:13 PM, Stefan Monn= ier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
> I disagree.=C2=A0 I use =C2=AB and =C2=BB from time to time= , and I /never/ wanted to
> use =E2=89=AA or =E2=89=AB.

FWIW I'm in the same situation.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Stefan


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