Fwd: Enforcing newlines in plain text export

Fwd: Enforcing newlines in plain text export

[Richard Lawrence]

Hi Kaushal,

I am forwarding your message to the Org mode list; you only sent it to
me and Nicolas...

Kaushal <kaushal.modi@gmail.com> writes:

> I came across
> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2014-09/msg00466.html
> through this emacs SE page:
> http://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/255/new-line-in-title-of-an-org-mode-exported-html-document
>
> The question I had asked on stackexchange was: How to export a mid-line
> newline consistently in all formats.

In paragraphs, all you need to do is end a line with "\\" to force a
line break.  This works for LaTeX, HTML, and plain text export, at least.

This doesn't work in other kinds of syntax, like headlines, but you may
not need it there.

> But I couldn't figure out how to convey a newline character when exporting
> to plain text (ascii).
>
> I tried,
>
> #+MACRO: NEWLINE @@latex:\\@@ @@html:<br>@@ @@ascii:\n@@
>
> But that simply puts out "\n" verbatim in the exported txt file.

I don't know the answer to this specific issue---you might need to
create a custom export filter---but hopefully you can just use "\\"
instead of a macro like this.

Do you need to enforce line breaks *outside of* a paragraph in plain
text export?  If so, what case are you worried about specifically?

Best,
Richard

OpenPGP Key ID: CF6FA646
Fingerprint: 9969 43E1 CF6F A646

(See http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~rwl/encryption.html for more information.)

Re: Enforcing newlines in plain text export

[Kaushal]

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The reason I switched to using this {{{NEWLINE}}} macro is that I wanted
consistent results wherever I used it for any kind of export.

Example:

-----
#+TITLE: First Line of Title // Second Line of Title
-----

Above works for only latex > pdf exports.
HTML export of above keeps the `//` characters verbatim.

So I did the below:

-----
#+MACRO: NEWLINE @@latex:\\@@ @@html:<br>@@
#+TITLE: First Line of Title {{{NEWLINE}}} Second Line of Title
-----

The above solution looks clean to me, but now that doesn't work for ascii
exports as I don't know what to put in between "@@ascii:@@" to get a
newline in ascii exports.


Interesting thing is that `//` work fine at the end of the lines.
If I have the below:

-----
Some text in org file on first line //
Some text in org file on second line //
Some text in org file on third line
-----

.. then the pdf, html, ascii exports interpret `//` as a newline character.

For consistency, now I use:

-----
Some text in org file on first line {{{NEWLINE}}}
Some text in org file on second line {{{NEWLINE}}}
Some text in org file on third line
-----

I am just waiting to know the magic characters for ascii exports that can
give me newlines by using the above macro. Then I don't have to worry
whether I am using `//` at the end of the line or in the middle of a line.

The end result would be:

-----
#+MACRO: NEWLINE @@latex:\\@@ @@html:<br>@@
@@ascii:NEWLINE_CHARACTERS_FOR_ASCII_EXPORT@@
#+TITLE: First Line of Title {{{NEWLINE}}} Second Line of Title
Some text in org file on first line {{{NEWLINE}}}
Some text in org file on second line {{{NEWLINE}}}
Some text in org file on third line
-----







--
Kaushal Modi

On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 11:52 AM, Richard Lawrence <
richard.lawrence@berkeley.edu> wrote:

> Hi Kaushal,
>
> I am forwarding your message to the Org mode list; you only sent it to
> me and Nicolas...
>
> Kaushal <kaushal.modi@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > I came across
> > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2014-09/msg00466.html
> > through this emacs SE page:
> >
> http://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/255/new-line-in-title-of-an-org-mode-exported-html-document
> >
> > The question I had asked on stackexchange was: How to export a mid-line
> > newline consistently in all formats.
>
> In paragraphs, all you need to do is end a line with "\\" to force a
> line break.  This works for LaTeX, HTML, and plain text export, at least.
>
> This doesn't work in other kinds of syntax, like headlines, but you may
> not need it there.
>
> > But I couldn't figure out how to convey a newline character when
> exporting
> > to plain text (ascii).
> >
> > I tried,
> >
> > #+MACRO: NEWLINE @@latex:\\@@ @@html:<br>@@ @@ascii:\n@@
> >
> > But that simply puts out "\n" verbatim in the exported txt file.
>
> I don't know the answer to this specific issue---you might need to
> create a custom export filter---but hopefully you can just use "\\"
> instead of a macro like this.
>
> Do you need to enforce line breaks *outside of* a paragraph in plain
> text export?  If so, what case are you worried about specifically?
>
> Best,
> Richard
>
> OpenPGP Key ID: CF6FA646
> Fingerprint: 9969 43E1 CF6F A646
>
> (See http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~rwl/encryption.html for more
> information.)
>

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Re: Enforcing newlines in plain text export

[Kaushal]

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> Do you need to enforce line breaks *outside of* a paragraph in plain
> text export?  If so, what case are you worried about specifically?

I forgot to answer this question.. I need to force line breaks in cases
like these

-----
For example, to execute the =example_1= test and run in the {{{NEWLINE}}}

=/some/long/path/that/wouldn't/fit/along/with/the/above/line/in/the/same/line=
directory,
do the following..
-----

In the above example, org-export will not wrap the text between the
verbatim formatting characters "=".
To ensure that the exported formats (html/pdf/ascii) look clean, I have to
force a newline character just before that long string.

Now using "\\" here instead of {{{NEWLINE}}} works but then I have to
ensure that I place the "\\" character at the very end. If they are placed
mid-line then they will be interpreted as newline by latex but simply "\\"
character by html exporter.

For consistency, the {{{NEWLINE}}} approach looks better; hoping that
org-mode will support a special newline character for ascii exports at some
time:

-----
#+MACRO: NEWLINE @@latex:\\@@ @@html:<br>@@ @@ascii:NEWLINE_CHARACTERS_
FOR_ASCII_EXPORT@@
-----



--
Kaushal Modi

On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 12:04 PM, Kaushal <kaushal.modi@gmail.com> wrote:

> The reason I switched to using this {{{NEWLINE}}} macro is that I wanted
> consistent results wherever I used it for any kind of export.
>
> Example:
>
> -----
> #+TITLE: First Line of Title // Second Line of Title
> -----
>
> Above works for only latex > pdf exports.
> HTML export of above keeps the `//` characters verbatim.
>
> So I did the below:
>
> -----
> #+MACRO: NEWLINE @@latex:\\@@ @@html:<br>@@
> #+TITLE: First Line of Title {{{NEWLINE}}} Second Line of Title
> -----
>
> The above solution looks clean to me, but now that doesn't work for ascii
> exports as I don't know what to put in between "@@ascii:@@" to get a
> newline in ascii exports.
>
>
> Interesting thing is that `//` work fine at the end of the lines.
> If I have the below:
>
> -----
> Some text in org file on first line //
> Some text in org file on second line //
> Some text in org file on third line
> -----
>
> .. then the pdf, html, ascii exports interpret `//` as a newline character.
>
> For consistency, now I use:
>
> -----
> Some text in org file on first line {{{NEWLINE}}}
> Some text in org file on second line {{{NEWLINE}}}
> Some text in org file on third line
> -----
>
> I am just waiting to know the magic characters for ascii exports that can
> give me newlines by using the above macro. Then I don't have to worry
> whether I am using `//` at the end of the line or in the middle of a line.
>
> The end result would be:
>
> -----
> #+MACRO: NEWLINE @@latex:\\@@ @@html:<br>@@
> @@ascii:NEWLINE_CHARACTERS_FOR_ASCII_EXPORT@@
> #+TITLE: First Line of Title {{{NEWLINE}}} Second Line of Title
> Some text in org file on first line {{{NEWLINE}}}
> Some text in org file on second line {{{NEWLINE}}}
> Some text in org file on third line
> -----
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Kaushal Modi
>
> On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 11:52 AM, Richard Lawrence <
> richard.lawrence@berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
>> Hi Kaushal,
>>
>> I am forwarding your message to the Org mode list; you only sent it to
>> me and Nicolas...
>>
>> Kaushal <kaushal.modi@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> > I came across
>> > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2014-09/msg00466.html
>> > through this emacs SE page:
>> >
>> http://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/255/new-line-in-title-of-an-org-mode-exported-html-document
>> >
>> > The question I had asked on stackexchange was: How to export a mid-line
>> > newline consistently in all formats.
>>
>> In paragraphs, all you need to do is end a line with "\\" to force a
>> line break.  This works for LaTeX, HTML, and plain text export, at least.
>>
>> This doesn't work in other kinds of syntax, like headlines, but you may
>> not need it there.
>>
>> > But I couldn't figure out how to convey a newline character when
>> exporting
>> > to plain text (ascii).
>> >
>> > I tried,
>> >
>> > #+MACRO: NEWLINE @@latex:\\@@ @@html:<br>@@ @@ascii:\n@@
>> >
>> > But that simply puts out "\n" verbatim in the exported txt file.
>>
>> I don't know the answer to this specific issue---you might need to
>> create a custom export filter---but hopefully you can just use "\\"
>> instead of a macro like this.
>>
>> Do you need to enforce line breaks *outside of* a paragraph in plain
>> text export?  If so, what case are you worried about specifically?
>>
>> Best,
>> Richard
>>
>> OpenPGP Key ID: CF6FA646
>> Fingerprint: 9969 43E1 CF6F A646
>>
>> (See http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~rwl/encryption.html for more
>> information.)
>>
>
>

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Re: Enforcing newlines in plain text export

[Richard Lawrence]

Kaushal <kaushal.modi@gmail.com> writes:

> Interesting thing is that `\\` work fine at the end of the lines.

Yes, this is the behavior documented in the manual.

> I need to force line breaks in cases like these
>
> -----
> For example, to execute the =example_1= test and run in the {{{NEWLINE}}}
>
> =/some/long/path/that/wouldn't/fit/along/with/the/above/line/in/the/same/line=
> directory,
> do the following..
> -----
>
> In the above example, org-export will not wrap the text between the
> verbatim formatting characters "=".
> To ensure that the exported formats (html/pdf/ascii) look clean, I have to
> force a newline character just before that long string.
>
> Now using "\\" here instead of {{{NEWLINE}}} works but then I have to
> ensure that I place the "\\" character at the very end. If they are placed
> mid-line then they will be interpreted as newline by latex but simply "\\"
> character by html exporter.

As you say, "\\" at the end of the line works fine in this case.  So it
seems you do not have a need for another solution.

> For consistency, the {{{NEWLINE}}} approach looks better; hoping that
> org-mode will support a special newline character for ascii exports at some
> time:
>
> -----
> #+MACRO: NEWLINE @@latex:\\@@ @@html:<br>@@ @@ascii:NEWLINE_CHARACTERS_
> FOR_ASCII_EXPORT@@
> -----

This would really not be a great solution, and I don't think you should
expect Org mode to support it.  If you really need something like this,
you could write an export filter for yourself (e.g., one that replaces
the string "ASCII_NEWLINE_CHARACTER" with "\n" in the exported buffer).
See the "Advanced configuration" section of the Exporting chapter in the
manual.

A better and more general solution, I think, would be to allow "\\" to
be used in other contexts, such as in headlines, title/author/date
declarations, etc.  But that is a change to the currently documented
syntax, and it is probably a fair amount of work to implement, so it
probably isn't going to happen unless a variety of users really need it
and the maintainers think it would be an improvement to Org.
 
Best,
Richard

Re: Enforcing newlines in plain text export

[Kaushal]

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I am requesting a consistent solution.

If "//" at the end of a line inserts newline when exporting in all formats,
then it should do the same when used in between a line too for ALL export
formats.

Example: #+TITLE: Line one // Line two

I am simply trying to explain why we need another solution for the sake of
consistency across all org exported formats. But I understand if the org
team doesn't think it worthwhile to implement.

I'll look into the export filter configuration.

Thanks.
Kaushal
On Sep 26, 2014 8:47 PM, "Richard Lawrence" <richard.lawrence@berkeley.edu>
wrote:

> Kaushal <kaushal.modi@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Interesting thing is that `\\` work fine at the end of the lines.
>
> Yes, this is the behavior documented in the manual.
>
> > I need to force line breaks in cases like these
> >
> > -----
> > For example, to execute the =example_1= test and run in the {{{NEWLINE}}}
> >
> >
> =/some/long/path/that/wouldn't/fit/along/with/the/above/line/in/the/same/line=
> > directory,
> > do the following..
> > -----
> >
> > In the above example, org-export will not wrap the text between the
> > verbatim formatting characters "=".
> > To ensure that the exported formats (html/pdf/ascii) look clean, I have
> to
> > force a newline character just before that long string.
> >
> > Now using "\\" here instead of {{{NEWLINE}}} works but then I have to
> > ensure that I place the "\\" character at the very end. If they are
> placed
> > mid-line then they will be interpreted as newline by latex but simply
> "\\"
> > character by html exporter.
>
> As you say, "\\" at the end of the line works fine in this case.  So it
> seems you do not have a need for another solution.
>
> > For consistency, the {{{NEWLINE}}} approach looks better; hoping that
> > org-mode will support a special newline character for ascii exports at
> some
> > time:
> >
> > -----
> > #+MACRO: NEWLINE @@latex:\\@@ @@html:<br>@@ @@ascii:NEWLINE_CHARACTERS_
> > FOR_ASCII_EXPORT@@
> > -----
>
> This would really not be a great solution, and I don't think you should
> expect Org mode to support it.  If you really need something like this,
> you could write an export filter for yourself (e.g., one that replaces
> the string "ASCII_NEWLINE_CHARACTER" with "\n" in the exported buffer).
> See the "Advanced configuration" section of the Exporting chapter in the
> manual.
>
> A better and more general solution, I think, would be to allow "\\" to
> be used in other contexts, such as in headlines, title/author/date
> declarations, etc.  But that is a change to the currently documented
> syntax, and it is probably a fair amount of work to implement, so it
> probably isn't going to happen unless a variety of users really need it
> and the maintainers think it would be an improvement to Org.
>
> Best,
> Richard
>

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Re: Enforcing newlines in plain text export

[Richard Lawrence]

Hi Kaushal, 

Kaushal <kaushal.modi@gmail.com> writes:

> I am requesting a consistent solution.
>
> If "//" at the end of a line inserts newline when exporting in all formats,
> then it should do the same when used in between a line too for ALL export
> formats.
>
> Example: #+TITLE: Line one // Line two
>
> I am simply trying to explain why we need another solution for the sake of
> consistency across all org exported formats.

Like I said, I agree that something like this would be useful; I
occasionally would like "\\" to have more general behavior, too.
Anyway, it seems worth discussing.

My point is that this would be a new feature, which is technically
*inconsistent* with the currently-documented behavior.  Implementing it
would take some work and would involve breaking backward
compatibility. (At least in theory -- I don't know if anyone out there
relies on "\\" *not* being translated when it does not appear at the end
of a line, but someone might be.)  So it's not something to be taken
lightly.

Does anyone know why the behavior of "\\" is presently restricted to
appearing at the end of the line in a paragraph?  Does anyone need it to
be exported literally when it appears elsewhere?

Best,
Richard

Re: Enforcing newlines in plain text export

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Richard Lawrence <richard.lawrence@berkeley.edu> writes:

> Does anyone know why the behavior of "\\" is presently restricted to
> appearing at the end of the line in a paragraph? 

I certainly can see a good reason for it, although I don't know if it is
the historical one.

Org syntax is primarily intended for Org documents. When in an _Org_
buffer, what would be the meaning of a line break in the middle of
a line?


Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: Enforcing newlines in plain text export

[Kaushal]

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I needed to have multi line titles exported in all formats consistently and
that's when I need to use '\\' mid-line.

--
Kaushal Modi
On Sep 27, 2014 5:16 PM, "Nicolas Goaziou" <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Richard Lawrence <richard.lawrence@berkeley.edu> writes:
>
> > Does anyone know why the behavior of "\\" is presently restricted to
> > appearing at the end of the line in a paragraph?
>
> I certainly can see a good reason for it, although I don't know if it is
> the historical one.
>
> Org syntax is primarily intended for Org documents. When in an _Org_
> buffer, what would be the meaning of a line break in the middle of
> a line?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Nicolas Goaziou
>

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Re: Enforcing newlines in plain text export

[Alexis]

Richard Lawrence writes:

> Does anyone know why the behavior of "\\" is presently restricted to
> appearing at the end of the line in a paragraph?  Does anyone need it
> to be exported literally when it appears elsewhere?

When exporting code listings in any programming language which uses '\'
for escaping characters in strings, and subsequently uses '\\' to mean
"literal backslash", literal export is required. For example, one might
have an Org document with Emacs Lisp source:

  -----
 ' * A
 | ** B
 | #+begin_src emacs-lisp
 |   (setq my-regex "\\\\(.+\\\\)")
 | #+end_src
 `-----


Alexis.