From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Kaushal Modi Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [PATCH] Add prettify symbols to python-mode Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2015 06:33:09 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1442777283-27514-1-git-send-email-mvoteiza@udel.edu> <20150921005306.GA29147@holos> <87h9mlwt6l.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <83bnctliay.fsf@gnu.org> <874mik6wqp.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113dc94ce160f305207bc165 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1443090816 18808 80.91.229.3 (24 Sep 2015 10:33:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2015 10:33:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Xue Fuqiao , Eli Zaretskii , Achim Gratz , Emacs-devel To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 24 12:33:35 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Zf3qH-0001g3-4p for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 12:33:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54738 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zf3qF-0000rA-QV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 06:33:31 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36845) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zf3q0-0000qK-8j for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 06:33:17 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zf3pz-00008N-0G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 06:33:16 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-oi0-x234.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4003:c06::234]:35446) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zf3pt-00005U-SQ; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 06:33:10 -0400 Original-Received: by oiww128 with SMTP id w128so38833785oiw.2; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 03:33:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=JO1UiQnMauCUBG+HtO11CvvolgBZjumn3rqTocNCsQ4=; b=v0CqSk3BgDdARNeVAYOtxkx59YQW8DNaVWOtd+YhR+C+X0XKl6tazuVig1DXZjM9e8 enelFr8qQ3HBSRAQC1FwPIv6TVMxUoFnk/3StYwaPcItzHcFBQGjj+z+2Yin2bzQ+jLF 70LSDHjsVTjmKYmOARqVB2lVMkOXp2L+HhKAXENRFVQ9yMDKDVYm65YklOvLGr0qH3ji 8Q+cx2aQn5PZEc+spvDjp/cF0WRbHu4WZ71WyUg2fvli0DDvpNzO19nWBrL1JChzDmjn CilwhKvW9jnq99sqoPh2A0V7j63A1AwCbCOJ/Oe/l/lYTiOJ32ShFTmKKMJErnoYcu3l 1dkw== X-Received: by 10.202.72.196 with SMTP id v187mr21223915oia.134.1443090789381; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 03:33:09 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.202.172.205 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 03:33:09 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.202.172.205 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 03:33:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <874mik6wqp.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4003:c06::234 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:190326 Archived-At: --001a113dc94ce160f305207bc165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I believe that the "beginner" here in question is not someone who just started using emacs but a beginner contributor who is already comfortable with emacs and is interested in contributing to the C code but isn't because there isn't enough "Getting started with C tinkering in emacs" documentation. I like the points that Xue made there with an example of what a "beginner" would go through when trying to understand the display engine. -- Kaushal Modi On Sep 24, 2015 4:35 AM, "David Kastrup" wrote: > Xue Fuqiao writes: > > > BTW, I was just trying making an analysis of the this problem, and of > > course my analysis could be wrong. Do you have any idea why newcomers > > mostly prefer working on application-level code in Lisp? > > In my opinion that's a feature, not a bug. Elisp is there for a reason. > > > (Let's try and stay constructive. If we can find the causes, then we > > have the possibility to improve the current condition.) > > We have Elisp exactly in order not to have to address problems by > reverting to C programming. In my opinion it is entirely the wrong idea > to have people start solving problems in C because they prefer it to > Elisp. The main reason to solve problems in C is because there is no > reasonably workable solution to be created in Elisp. If beginners turn > to C first, they will not even know whether there would be a reasonably > workable solution available in Elisp. > > Elisp code can be debugged reasonably nicely, manages its memory and > data structures reliably. It's concise, memory-efficient and > expressive. > > -- > David Kastrup > > --001a113dc94ce160f305207bc165 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I believe that the "beginner" here in question is = not someone who just started using emacs but a beginner contributor who is = already comfortable with emacs and is interested in contributing to the C c= ode but isn't because there isn't enough "Getting started with= C tinkering in emacs" documentation.

I like the points that Xue made there with an example of wha= t a "beginner" would go through when trying to understand the dis= play engine.

--
Kaushal Modi

On Sep 24, 2015 4:35 AM, "David Kastrup&quo= t; <dak@gnu.org> wrote:
Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free@gmail.com> writes:

> BTW, I was just trying making an analysis of the this problem, and of<= br> > course my analysis could be wrong.=C2=A0 Do you have any idea why newc= omers
> mostly prefer working on application-level code in Lisp?

In my opinion that's a feature, not a bug.=C2=A0 Elisp is there for a r= eason.

> (Let's try and stay constructive.=C2=A0 If we can find the causes,= then we
> have the possibility to improve the current condition.)

We have Elisp exactly in order not to have to address problems by
reverting to C programming.=C2=A0 In my opinion it is entirely the wrong id= ea
to have people start solving problems in C because they prefer it to
Elisp.=C2=A0 The main reason to solve problems in C is because there is no<= br> reasonably workable solution to be created in Elisp.=C2=A0 If beginners tur= n
to C first, they will not even know whether there would be a reasonably
workable solution available in Elisp.

Elisp code can be debugged reasonably nicely, manages its memory and
data structures reliably.=C2=A0 It's concise, memory-efficient and
expressive.

--
David Kastrup

--001a113dc94ce160f305207bc165--