From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Kaushal Modi Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#21588: 25.0.50: Single quotes becoming curvy quotes in message function Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 21:05:01 -0400 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c2ef9a7b297b0520ec875d X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1443648591 26293 80.91.229.3 (30 Sep 2015 21:29:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 21:29:51 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Alan Mackenzie , Paul Eggert , Stefan Monnier To: Glenn Morris , 21588-done@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 30 23:29:42 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZhOwX-00079Z-Nm for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2015 23:29:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33556 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZhOwX-0005dz-3b for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2015 17:29:41 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55407) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zh5qS-0000QY-3r for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Sep 2015 21:06:09 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zh5qM-0001CR-Uz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Sep 2015 21:06:08 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:59366) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zh5qM-0001CF-Qw for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Sep 2015 21:06:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Zh5qM-0007tb-6W for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Sep 2015 21:06:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Kaushal Modi Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 01:06:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 21588 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 21588-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D21588.144357514530327 (code D ref 21588); Wed, 30 Sep 2015 01:06:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 21588-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2015 01:05:45 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48337 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Zh5q4-0007t4-CF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Sep 2015 21:05:44 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ob0-f175.google.com ([209.85.214.175]:34820) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Zh5q1-0007sv-M4 for 21588-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Sep 2015 21:05:42 -0400 Original-Received: by obbzf10 with SMTP id zf10so19864019obb.2 for <21588-done@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 29 Sep 2015 18:05:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=9Myt6MadW+ZNP09W2pHwJ19kX/NLkH+sPlwLQ7I+imo=; b=diIBWjb0/WX8qihaY6II7aWg7MLes1iw1TMGsZBIS4+Qf209l7tsycct0VfDiPOwmK 7fuOm7lRv/8x6ym2wuRwmVZzzK1PK37LjzYbEneI42j6PcEb7cUUSvFBdilhAcpR1SS4 34g+QXf6zQhQ8HLvi+kz2oAAi/jsevxdMR0Otx13a047GOOulWI4cgmit8UEOia2ZRdp 7HMcjLnwD84anfCDRSR6idcfR0LhloyOKpemSxDWJRD2JvABUQw0PGmSdbAe8FY6zTFQ K5J16TBrJ6O3NcZWE0uQ8rkQmbgK9G62kGEGfkXiOBIPa/sU8gBxOHM/vPW8bLju6BqS c1Kg== X-Received: by 10.182.246.101 with SMTP id xv5mr585920obc.5.1443575140915; Tue, 29 Sep 2015 18:05:40 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.202.172.205 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Sep 2015 18:05:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:107066 Archived-At: --001a11c2ef9a7b297b0520ec875d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Glenn, Can you please re-open this bug if the below argument makes sense? It doesn't feel right that (message "'Hey'") gets displayed as =E2=80=99Hey= =E2=80=99. The display looks "buggy" with the default value of text-quoting-style. A user shouldn't be perplexed with that kind of display in an emacs -Q session. It just feels wrong. It would make more sense to have the default value of text-quoting-style as 'grave. That way, (message "'Hey'") prints 'Hey' and (message "`Hey'") prints `Hey'; there are not surprises. If we really want the curved quotes rendering, 'Hey' should NOT be rendered as =E2=80=99Hey=E2=80=99. It might be fine to render `Hey' as =E2=80=98Hey= =E2=80=99. But having the default setup render a common string like 'Hey' with identical curved quotes just looks wrong. Please review and reconsider based on the output given by the elisp snippet in my previous email. IMO, we are missing a "middle ground" option where if text-quoting-style is set to 'middle-ground, (message "'Hey'") would yield 'Hey' (preserved apostrophes) and (message "`Hey'") would give =E2=80=98Hey=E2=80=99 (balanc= ed curved quotes). If the middle-ground option is decided to not be added, then fine. But please don't have the unbalanced curved quotes =E2=80=99Hey=E2=80=99 as the= default. I ended up opening this bug report after having quite a few emacs packages print stuff with unbalanced curved quotes and that hit my OCD bar. -- Kaushal Modi On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 6:54 PM, Kaushal Modi wrote: > Thanks for the reply. > > Among all the noise about curved quotes, I missed out the discussion abou= t > text-quoting-style. I started paying attention to that only recently when > Paul reverted curved quote stuff in the documentation. > > I should have looked at NEWS; sorry about that. > > I got my answer; I need to set text-quoting-style to 'straight. > > For reference, > > (progn > (message "text-quoting-style =3D default") > (let ((text-quoting-style)) > (message "'Hey'") > (message "`Hey'")) > (message "text-quoting-style =3D curve") > (let ((text-quoting-style 'curve)) > (message "'Hey'") > (message "`Hey'")) > (message "text-quoting-style =3D straight") > (let ((text-quoting-style 'straight)) > (message "'Hey'") > (message "`Hey'")) > (message "text-quoting-style =3D grave") > (let ((text-quoting-style 'grave)) > (message "'Hey'") > (message "`Hey'"))) > > gives > > > text-quoting-style =3D default > =E2=80=99Hey=E2=80=99 > =E2=80=98Hey=E2=80=99 > text-quoting-style =3D curve > =E2=80=99Hey=E2=80=99 > =E2=80=98Hey=E2=80=99 > text-quoting-style =3D straight > 'Hey' [2 times] > text-quoting-style =3D grave > 'Hey' > `Hey' > > > > > > > -- > Kaushal Modi > > On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 5:32 PM, Glenn Morris wrote: > >> >> This has been discussed to death and is documented in NEWS. >> I'm not sure what else there could be left to say. >> > > --001a11c2ef9a7b297b0520ec875d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Glenn,

Can you please re-open this bu= g if the below argument makes sense?

It doesn't feel right that (message "= 'Hey'") gets displayed as=C2=A0=E2=80=99Hey=E2=80=99. The disp= lay looks "buggy" with the default value of text-quoting-style. A= user shouldn't be perplexed with that kind of display in an emacs -Q s= ession. It just feels wrong.

It would make more sense to have the default value of = text-quoting-style as 'grave. That way, (message "'Hey'&qu= ot;) prints 'Hey' and (message "`Hey'") prints `Hey&#= 39;; there are not surprises.

If we really want the curved quotes rendering, 'H= ey' should NOT be rendered as =E2=80=99Hey=E2=80=99. It might be fine t= o render `Hey' as=C2=A0=E2=80=98Hey=E2=80=99. But having the default se= tup render a common string like 'Hey' with identical curved quotes = just looks wrong.


Please review and reconsider = based on the output given by the elisp snippet in my previous email.
<= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:'trebuchet ms',san= s-serif;font-size:small">
IMO, we are mi= ssing a "middle ground" option where if text-quoting-style is set= to 'middle-ground, (message "'Hey'") would yield = 9;Hey' (preserved apostrophes) and (message "`Hey'") woul= d give =E2=80=98Hey=E2=80=99 (balanced curved quotes).

If the middle-ground option = is decided to not be added, then fine. But please don't have the unbala= nced curved quotes =E2=80=99Hey=E2=80=99 as the default.

I ended up opening this bu= g report after having quite a few emacs packages print stuff with unbalance= d curved quotes and that hit my OCD bar.


= --
Kaushal Modi

On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 6:54 PM, Kaushal Mod= i <kaushal.modi@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for the rep= ly.=C2=A0


I should have looked at NEW= S; sorry about that.

I got my answer; I need to set text-quoting-style to 'stra= ight.

Fo= r reference,

(progn
= =C2=A0 (message "text-quoting-style =3D default")
=C2=A0 (let ((text-quoting-style))
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (message "'Hey'")
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (message "`Hey'"))
<= div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 (message "text-quoting-style =3D cu= rve")
=C2=A0 (let ((text-quoting-sty= le 'curve))
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (message &q= uot;'Hey'")
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (m= essage "`Hey'"))
=C2=A0 (me= ssage "text-quoting-style =3D straight")
=C2=A0 (let ((text-quoting-style 'straight))
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (message "'Hey'")
<= div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (message "`Hey'"))<= /div>
=C2=A0 (message "text-quoting-style = =3D grave")
=C2=A0 (let ((text-quoti= ng-style 'grave))
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (mess= age "'Hey'")
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 (message "`Hey'")))
gives


text-quoting-style =3D default
=E2=80=99Hey=E2=80=99
=E2=80=98Hey=E2=80=99
text-quoting-st= yle =3D curve
=E2=80=99Hey=E2=80=99
=
=E2=80=98Hey=E2=80=99
text-quoting-style =3D straight
'Hey' [2 times]
text-quoting-sty= le =3D grave
'Hey'
`Hey'

<= div class=3D"gmail_default">




--
Kaushal Modi

On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 5:32 PM, Glenn Morri= s <rg= m@gnu.org> wrote:

This has been discussed to death and is documented in NEWS.
I'm not sure what else there could be left to say.


--001a11c2ef9a7b297b0520ec875d--