From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thibaut Verron Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Opening Up More Keymaps Re: Standardizing more key bindings? Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2020 19:32:16 +0200 Message-ID: References: <24436.53239.437810.270641@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> <24436.58187.698211.262192@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> <83362yisgn.fsf@gnu.org> <83y2kpf74o.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: thibaut.verron@gmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ef335c05b0dbbf59" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="4989"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Richard Stallman , raman@google.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, dgutov@yandex.ru, Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Alfred M. 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That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:257042 Archived-At: --000000000000ef335c05b0dbbf59 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Le dim. 4 oct. 2020 =C3=A0 19:00, Alfred M. Szmidt a =C3=A9cr= it : > The exact same arguments could apply to C-c being "replaced" by C-= x > C-c. > > There is a big difference in that C-c is already used by Emacs for > other things, one is for users, and the second is for local > keybindings in modes. Changing that would break quite a bit of > things. > > I meant when C-c was chosen, I wasn't suggesting to change things now. > > I suspect that C-c was choosen long before GNU Emacs. > That does not necessarily make the then-reasoning invalid. > But if C-x C-c for C-c was never too confusing, C-x C-z for C-z > should be fine too. > > That makes no sense to me, C-x C-c and C-c have nothing in > common, one kills Emacs by asking the user the other is used by other > modes and users. C-c (SIGINT) in Unix has a entierly different > behaviour than all of those... > Only for programs which don't intercept it (either the key or the signal). Others choose to intercept the key or the signal and request confirmation, ask for saving, etc. For practical purposes, in a responsive process, C-x C-c is "quit now", aka C-c anywhere else. Even if the mechanism is somewhat different, it's not an entirely different behavior. I don't have a computer at hand to test, but I wouldn't be too surprised if sending SIGINT to an emacs process called save-buffers-kill-emacs. In any case, C-z can display a message guiding the user to the > proper key sequence. And one could argue that C-c could show such a > message too(without breaking anything). > > C-c doesn't interrupt Emacs; so having it show a message would be > missleading to the user. > I don't understand. What would be misleading in a message "To quit emacs, type C-x C-c"? > --000000000000ef335c05b0dbbf59 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Le dim. 4 oct. 2020 =C3=A0 19:00, Alfred M. Szmidt <ams@gnu.org> a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The exact same argu= ments could apply to C-c being "replaced" by C-x C-c.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 There is a big difference in that C-c is already used by Emac= s for
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 other things, one is for users, and the second is for local =C2=A0 =C2=A0 keybindings in modes.=C2=A0 Changing that would break quite a= bit of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 things.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0I meant when C-c was chosen, I wasn't suggesting to change= things now.

I suspect that C-c was choosen long before GNU Emacs.

That does not necessar= ily make the then-reasoning invalid.=C2=A0
<= div dir=3D"auto">
=C2=A0But if C-x C-c for C-c was never too conf= using, C-x C-z for C-z
=C2=A0 =C2=A0should be fine too.

That makes no sense to me, C-x C-c and C-c <foo> have nothing in
common, one kills Emacs by asking the user the other is used by other
modes and users.=C2=A0 C-c (SIGINT) in Unix has a entierly different
behaviour than all of those...

Only for programs which don't intercept i= t (either the key or the signal). Others choose to intercept the key or the= signal and request confirmation, ask for saving, etc.=C2=A0

For practical purposes, in a responsi= ve process, C-x C-c is "quit now", aka C-c anywhere else. Even if= the mechanism is somewhat different, it's not an entirely different be= havior.=C2=A0

I don'= t have a computer at hand to test, but I wouldn't be too surprised if s= ending SIGINT to an emacs process called save-buffers-kill-emacs.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0In any ca= se, C-z can display a message guiding the user to the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0proper key sequence. And one could argue that C-c could show s= uch a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0message too(without breaking anything).

C-c doesn't interrupt Emacs; so having it show a message would be
missleading to the user.

=
I don't understand. What would be misleading in= a message "To quit emacs, type C-x C-c"?=C2=A0
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