From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Samuel El-Borai Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs as WM Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 10:19:53 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87zjfe1t3y.fsf@news.tumashu-localhost.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0111c26a2ba18905005638f0 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1407745207 24043 80.91.229.3 (11 Aug 2014 08:20:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 08:20:07 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs developers To: Feng Shu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 11 10:20:02 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XGkpm-00040n-1x for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 11 Aug 2014 10:20:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34339 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XGkpl-00064O-JT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 11 Aug 2014 04:20:01 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39689) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XGkpg-000642-Qo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Aug 2014 04:19:58 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XGkpe-0003wW-S6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Aug 2014 04:19:56 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ie0-x232.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4001:c03::232]:47065) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XGkpe-0003wS-Jq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Aug 2014 04:19:54 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ie0-f178.google.com with SMTP id rd18so9406102iec.37 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 2014 01:19:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=0Ic+L4oQDjMhIm3Ph8U4NzLNREwiMPZlz+ff2tILt3o=; b=jQNN+wHHL2LAEL+u5snLoyLZu/lYSrSYR0qIspypq0OXVtjKpAAEOuhBxo18U4GdJ7 7CFeJELaLLdY34U4xWgzYHtdaH+P30E1Kc73HlhypdjiLvwn6AC7eKTx0Y3aP2kzaNjl WRvjL5/q6tXH7hOqY/r3Uqj+pzFNExZflwWRu3EFoFgOl/rvbJAUOp58hW5QvAx9vrzb UN2X1X5zufm4Jw9Xa/gMW6s7YgPOEQEeP2uRJSMVZMHjsRC4KzM1qwSz2Cia2l1Sl1Tb 7zTI0/x6tm5XMaFVVTT2+nvDckYhQ//x9+H7dCB4qxA9yewwaKTg7GLOXywlgqfWG6o9 3VEA== X-Received: by 10.50.119.105 with SMTP id kt9mr27348763igb.28.1407745193121; Mon, 11 Aug 2014 01:19:53 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.107.12.42 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Aug 2014 01:19:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87zjfe1t3y.fsf@news.tumashu-localhost.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4001:c03::232 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:173565 Archived-At: --089e0111c26a2ba18905005638f0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Other projects of the same kind: Guile-WM (Guile scheme) ------------------------------------- >From the README: "Guile-WM is a framework for creating an X window manager (or any other X application, really) and a set of useful modules designed for that purpose. [...] Guile-WM relies /heavily/ on its user init file. In fact, it won't do anything on its own without one. The intention is to provide something 100% configurable." Link: https://github.com/mwitmer/guile-wm # The Deep Space Window Manager (Common Lisp) >From the README: "DSWM is a fork of StumpWM, so have most of all features, which have StumpWM, but it designed for better usability and better integration with emacs." Link: https://github.com/dss-project/dswm You can also read a discussion about those here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8160968 2014-08-09 1:04 GMT+02:00 Feng Shu : > John Yates writes: > > > Personally I regularly have the opposite itch: wanting to replace > > emacs's frustrating window management with an external tiling WM (in > > my case awesome). > > I use stumpwm, which is like emacs. > > > > > /john > > > > On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Matthew Plant > > wrote: > > > > I was curious about what people on this list thought about > > application > > embedding in Emacs. To a degree this is already supported with > > ansi > > term, but this obviously doesn't extend to GUI applications. For > > those > > of you familiar with Plan 9, think of how programs use the window > > the > > terminal they're launched in; embedding GUI apps in Emacs would > > force > > the program to run in a window owned by Emacs and fitted into a > > buffer. > > > > The reason why I bring this up is because it would be relatively > > easy to > > do in a way that's not very platform agnostic. It's really easy to > > replace the X libarary (forgive me for not using proper > > nomenclature; > > it'd lengthen this email tenfold) window creation functions with > > one > > that extends contol over the window. The degree of integration can > > be > > controlled by the number of replaced functions. If drawn text > > wants to > > be handled specially, those functions would be replaced. Some > > method can > > be specified for switching between emacs and the application > > controlling > > user input. > > > > This has some obvious advantages; for one, Emacs automatically > > subsumes > > all editors, including more WYSIWYG editors. Not only that, but > > Emacs > > essentially becomes a window manager, which I personally would > > love. Because some apps, particular web browsers, do not always > > require > > special handling of the keyboard, switching between regular Emacs > > buffers and the special app buffers would be generally seamless. I > > could > > imagine myself typing away in one Emacs buffer, momentarily moving > > to > > the mouse to click throught some online doxygen in my web browser > > in the > > buffer to the right. > > > > There are also a lot of disadvantages to this. For one, the > > applications > > would be pretty buggy without some effort to re-implement X > > functions. Also, my co-worker points out that this would be > > incongrous > > with the current capabilities of Emacs, one of which is the easy > > transfer of text betwixt buffers. Getting these two features to > > work > > harmoniously would be kind of difficult; lots of wrappers to > > X/Gnome/whatever text writing functions would have to be made. > > However, > > copy and paste would work (I'm guessing) out of the box. > > > > I suppose it all boils down to what people want with the future of > > Emacs. Personally, I would love to turn on my computer and have > > Emacs be > > there every step of the way. I genuinely think that Emacs is a > > great > > full interface to an OS. It is not a full OS however and never > > should > > be, which is why I like this idea as an in-between. > > > > -M > > -- > > > --089e0111c26a2ba18905005638f0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Other projects of the same kind:

Guile-= WM (Guile scheme)
-------------------------------------
>From the README:=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0"Guile-WM is a framework for creating an X window manager (or any = other X
application, really) and a set of useful modu= les designed for that purpose.
=C2=A0
= [...]

    Guile-WM relies /heavily/ on it=
s user init file. In fact, it won't do anything on
   =
 its own without one. The intention is to provide something=C2=A0100%
    configurable."



# The Deep Space Window Manager (Common = Lisp)

From the README:=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 "DSWM is a fork of StumpWM, so have most= of all features, which have
StumpWM, but it designed for better usability= and better integration with
emac= s."



You can also read a discussion about those here:



2014-08-09 1:04 GMT+02:00 Feng Shu <tumashu@gmail.com>= ;:
John Yates <john@yates-sheets.org> writes:

> Personally I regularly have the opposite itch: wanting to replace
> emacs's frustrating window management with an external tiling WM (= in
> my case awesome).

I use stumpwm, which is like emacs.

>
> /john
>
> On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Matthew Plant <maplant2@illinois.edu>
> wrote:
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I was curious about what people on this list thought abo= ut
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 application
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 embedding in Emacs. To a degree this is already supporte= d with
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ansi
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 term, but this obviously doesn't extend to GUI appli= cations. For
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 those
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of you familiar with Plan 9, think of how programs use t= he window
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 terminal they're launched in; embedding GUI apps in = Emacs would
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 force
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the program to run in a window owned by Emacs and fitted= into a
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 buffer.
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The reason why I bring this up is because it would be re= latively
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 easy to
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 do in a way that's not very platform agnostic. It= 9;s really easy to
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 replace the X libarary (forgive me for not using proper<= br> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 nomenclature;
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 it'd lengthen this email tenfold) window creation fu= nctions with
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 one
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 that extends contol over the window. The degree of integ= ration can
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 be
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 controlled by the number of replaced functions. If drawn= text
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 wants to
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 be handled specially, those functions would be replaced.= Some
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 method can
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 be specified for switching between emacs and the applica= tion
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 controlling
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 user input.
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This has some obvious advantages; for one, Emacs automat= ically
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 subsumes
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 all editors, including more WYSIWYG editors. Not only th= at, but
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Emacs
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 essentially becomes a window manager, which I personally= would
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 love. Because some apps, particular web browsers, do not= always
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 require
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 special handling of the keyboard, switching between regu= lar Emacs
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 buffers and the special app buffers would be generally s= eamless. I
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 could
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 imagine myself typing away in one Emacs buffer, momentar= ily moving
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 to
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the mouse to click throught some online doxygen in my we= b browser
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 in the
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 buffer to the right.
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 There are also a lot of disadvantages to this. For one, = the
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 applications
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 would be pretty buggy without some effort to re-implemen= t X
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 functions. Also, my co-worker points out that this would= be
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 incongrous
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 with the current capabilities of Emacs, one of which is = the easy
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 transfer of text betwixt buffers. Getting these two feat= ures to
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 work
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 harmoniously would be kind of difficult; lots of wrapper= s to
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 X/Gnome/whatever text writing functions would have to be= made.
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 However,
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 copy and paste would work (I'm guessing) out of the = box.
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I suppose it all boils down to what people want with the= future of
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Emacs. Personally, I would love to turn on my computer a= nd have
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Emacs be
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 there every step of the way. I genuinely think that Emac= s is a
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 great
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 full interface to an OS. It is not a full OS however and= never
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 should
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 be, which is why I like this idea as an in-between.
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -M

--



--089e0111c26a2ba18905005638f0--