* About DLLs needed by Emacs (W64) @ 2017-11-20 12:53 Angelo Graziosi [not found] ` <1639589366.4676.1511182396362-HsGP3tMACQiIsOV+laUMjw@public.gmane.org> 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Angelo Graziosi @ 2017-11-20 12:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: msys2-users, emacs-devel Just out of curiosity, given the Emacs executable, is there a way to know the MSYS2/MinGW64 DLLs it needs? On MSYS2 I tried: ldd Emacs/bin/emacs-27.0.50.exe ntdll.dll => /c/WINDOWS/SYSTEM32/ntdll.dll (0x7ffab5f30000) KERNEL32.DLL => /c/WINDOWS/System32/KERNEL32.DLL (0x7ffab49b0000) [...] WINMMBASE.dll => /c/WINDOWS/SYSTEM32/WINMMBASE.dll (0x7ffab0620000) IPHLPAPI.DLL => /c/WINDOWS/SYSTEM32/IPHLPAPI.DLL (0x7ffab18a0000) bcrypt.dll => /c/WINDOWS/SYSTEM32/bcrypt.dll (0x7ffab1de0000) but it prints only Windows DLLs not all the others which come from MSYS2/MinGW64... Thanks, Angelo. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
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* Re: About DLLs needed by Emacs (W64) [not found] ` <1639589366.4676.1511182396362-HsGP3tMACQiIsOV+laUMjw@public.gmane.org> @ 2017-11-20 13:55 ` David Macek [not found] ` <4d86f0fd-d162-1287-861d-4527b8c0fd78-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> 2017-11-20 15:52 ` Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: David Macek @ 2017-11-20 13:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: angelo.g0-VGgt2q2+T+FeoWH0uzbU5w, msys2-users-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f, emacs-devel-mXXj517/zsQ [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 403 bytes --] On 20. 11. 2017 13:53, Angelo Graziosi via Msys2-users wrote: > Just out of curiosity, given the Emacs executable, is there a way to know the MSYS2/MinGW64 DLLs it needs? On MSYS2 I tried: > > ldd Emacs/bin/emacs-27.0.50.exe > but it prints only Windows DLLs not all the others which come from MSYS2/MinGW64... Hi. Use ntldd (installable via pacman) or Dependency Walker. -- David Macek [-- Attachment #1.2: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature --] [-- Type: application/pkcs7-signature, Size: 3715 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 202 bytes --] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot [-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 192 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Msys2-users mailing list Msys2-users-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/msys2-users ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
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* Re: About DLLs needed by Emacs (W64) [not found] ` <4d86f0fd-d162-1287-861d-4527b8c0fd78-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> @ 2017-11-20 14:46 ` Fabrice Popineau 2017-11-20 15:04 ` Óscar Fuentes 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Fabrice Popineau @ 2017-11-20 14:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: David Macek; +Cc: Msys2, Angelo Graziosi, Emacs developers [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 578 bytes --] 2017-11-20 14:55 GMT+01:00 David Macek <david.macek.0-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>: > On 20. 11. 2017 13:53, Angelo Graziosi via Msys2-users wrote: > >> Just out of curiosity, given the Emacs executable, is there a way to know >> the MSYS2/MinGW64 DLLs it needs? On MSYS2 I tried: >> >> ldd Emacs/bin/emacs-27.0.50.exe >> but it prints only Windows DLLs not all the others which come from >> MSYS2/MinGW64... >> > > Hi. Use ntldd (installable via pacman) or Dependency Walker. Will it find the libraries that loaded at runtime ? And their dependencies ? Fabrice [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 1157 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 202 bytes --] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot [-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 192 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Msys2-users mailing list Msys2-users-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/msys2-users ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: About DLLs needed by Emacs (W64) 2017-11-20 14:46 ` Fabrice Popineau @ 2017-11-20 15:04 ` Óscar Fuentes [not found] ` <8760a5t2iv.fsf-39ZsbGIQGT7e5aOfsHch1g@public.gmane.org> 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Óscar Fuentes @ 2017-11-20 15:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: msys2-users-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f; +Cc: emacs-devel-mXXj517/zsQ Fabrice Popineau <fabrice.popineau-LuT7N8upsGq9tw52UnRK6UZa+K1vlBrA@public.gmane.org> writes: >>> Just out of curiosity, given the Emacs executable, is there a way to know >>> the MSYS2/MinGW64 DLLs it needs? On MSYS2 I tried: >>> >>> ldd Emacs/bin/emacs-27.0.50.exe >>> but it prints only Windows DLLs not all the others which come from >>> MSYS2/MinGW64... >>> >> >> Hi. Use ntldd (installable via pacman) or Dependency Walker. > > > Will it find the libraries that loaded at runtime ? And their dependencies ? Dunno about ntldd, but if you execute Emacs from Dependency Walker it will report dlls loaded at runtime. Please note that Emacs will load a dll only when a feature that requires it is used. So it is not a reliable method for figuring out the dlls Emacs needs. The best method is to look at the packages Emacs depend on and get the dlls from there. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
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* Re: About DLLs needed by Emacs (W64) [not found] ` <8760a5t2iv.fsf-39ZsbGIQGT7e5aOfsHch1g@public.gmane.org> @ 2017-11-20 15:13 ` Fabrice Popineau [not found] ` <CAFgFV9OgzHsAWqi5ma9KWmHX63McYQc1OYrr+xE5kMKs5AOe1A-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Fabrice Popineau @ 2017-11-20 15:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Óscar Fuentes; +Cc: Msys2, Emacs developers [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1341 bytes --] 2017-11-20 16:04 GMT+01:00 Óscar Fuentes <ofv-39ZsbGIQGT7e5aOfsHch1g@public.gmane.org>: > Fabrice Popineau > <fabrice.popineau-LuT7N8upsGq9tw52UnRK6UZa+K1vlBrA@public.gmane.org> > writes: > > >>> Just out of curiosity, given the Emacs executable, is there a way to > know > >>> the MSYS2/MinGW64 DLLs it needs? On MSYS2 I tried: > >>> > >>> ldd Emacs/bin/emacs-27.0.50.exe > >>> but it prints only Windows DLLs not all the others which come from > >>> MSYS2/MinGW64... > >>> > >> > >> Hi. Use ntldd (installable via pacman) or Dependency Walker. > > > > > > Will it find the libraries that loaded at runtime ? And their > dependencies ? > > Dunno about ntldd, but if you execute Emacs from Dependency Walker it > will report dlls loaded at runtime. > Yes, if you _execute_ emacs from DependencyWalker and if you request that the dll be loaded. Until then, you don't know. I have built a list of dlls that maybe requested by emacs using pacman. I used pacman to know which package holds some dll like gnutls, and then I listed all its dependencies, and filtered the dlls in the dependencies. Unfortunately, knowing the dlls is not enough. For example, gnutls also need to have an accessible ca-bundle for certificates. ImageMagick needs all its helpers to handle various file formats, etc. Fabrice [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 1990 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 202 bytes --] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot [-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 192 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Msys2-users mailing list Msys2-users-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/msys2-users ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
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* Re: About DLLs needed by Emacs (W64) [not found] ` <CAFgFV9OgzHsAWqi5ma9KWmHX63McYQc1OYrr+xE5kMKs5AOe1A-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> @ 2017-11-20 17:31 ` Eli Zaretskii [not found] ` <83a7zgeu21.fsf-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org> 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2017-11-20 17:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fabrice Popineau Cc: ofv-39ZsbGIQGT7e5aOfsHch1g, msys2-users-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f, emacs-devel-mXXj517/zsQ > From: Fabrice Popineau <fabrice.popineau-LuT7N8upsGq9tw52UnRK6UZa+K1vlBrA@public.gmane.org> > Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 16:13:48 +0100 > Cc: Msys2 <msys2-users-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org>, > Emacs developers <emacs-devel-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org> > > gnutls also need to have an accessible ca-bundle for certificates. Not on MS-Windows, it doesn't: it uses the system certificate store instead. But in general, your point is valid: various optional libraries need support files to work properly. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
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* Re: About DLLs needed by Emacs (W64) [not found] ` <83a7zgeu21.fsf-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org> @ 2017-11-20 19:59 ` Fabrice Popineau [not found] ` <CAFgFV9O=UaWgVxOG0U=131vr9LrhwpsATmA369HMubTvao8r_A-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> 2017-11-22 23:06 ` [Msys2-users] " Phillip Lord 0 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Fabrice Popineau @ 2017-11-20 19:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Óscar Fuentes, Msys2, Emacs developers [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1243 bytes --] 2017-11-20 18:31 GMT+01:00 Eli Zaretskii <eliz-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org>: > > From: Fabrice Popineau <fabrice.popineau-LuT7N8upsGq9tw52UnRK6UZa+K1vlBrA@public.gmane.org> > > Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 16:13:48 +0100 > > Cc: Msys2 <msys2-users-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org>, > > Emacs developers <emacs-devel-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org> > > > > gnutls also need to have an accessible ca-bundle for certificates. > > Not on MS-Windows, it doesn't: it uses the system certificate store > instead. > Oh ... good to know. I recall that I had to make gnutls point to the file in the past. Maybe I overlooked something. (I don't use gnutls much) > But in general, your point is valid: various optional libraries need > support > files to work properly. > Given the numerous dependencies, and as long as msys2/mingw64 is concerned, it is so much easier to install msys2 and then request emacs from pacman than to package a standalone emacs. Lots of elisp packages may require other mingw64 packages : a spell checker, git, etc. It is easy to install them with pacman. The user will have a much harder time with a standalone emacs. If you want a full emacs experience, you need a full unix-like environment. Fabrice [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 2349 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 202 bytes --] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot [-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 192 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Msys2-users mailing list Msys2-users-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/msys2-users ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
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* Re: About DLLs needed by Emacs (W64) [not found] ` <CAFgFV9O=UaWgVxOG0U=131vr9LrhwpsATmA369HMubTvao8r_A-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> @ 2017-11-20 20:28 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2017-11-20 20:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fabrice Popineau Cc: ofv-39ZsbGIQGT7e5aOfsHch1g, msys2-users-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f, emacs-devel-mXXj517/zsQ > From: Fabrice Popineau <fabrice.popineau@centralesupelec.fr> > Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 20:59:05 +0100 > Cc: Óscar Fuentes <ofv@wanadoo.es>, > Msys2 <msys2-users@lists.sourceforge.net>, Emacs developers <emacs-devel@gnu.org> > > > gnutls also need to have an accessible ca-bundle for certificates. > > Not on MS-Windows, it doesn't: it uses the system certificate store instead. > > Oh ... good to know. I recall that I had to make gnutls point to the file in the past. It's a recently added feature: #if GNUTLS_VERSION_NUMBER >= 0x030014 # define HAVE_GNUTLS_X509_SYSTEM_TRUST #endif which then causes us to call the function. gnutls_certificate_set_x509_system_trust. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Msys2-users mailing list Msys2-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/msys2-users ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [Msys2-users] About DLLs needed by Emacs (W64) 2017-11-20 19:59 ` Fabrice Popineau [not found] ` <CAFgFV9O=UaWgVxOG0U=131vr9LrhwpsATmA369HMubTvao8r_A-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> @ 2017-11-22 23:06 ` Phillip Lord [not found] ` <877euh52xe.fsf-WS8JpuUeUJXe9xe1eoZjHA@public.gmane.org> 2017-11-23 14:02 ` Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Phillip Lord @ 2017-11-22 23:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fabrice Popineau Cc: Óscar Fuentes, Eli Zaretskii, Msys2, Emacs developers Fabrice Popineau <fabrice.popineau@centralesupelec.fr> writes: > 2017-11-20 18:31 GMT+01:00 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>: >> But in general, your point is valid: various optional libraries need >> support >> files to work properly. >> > > Given the numerous dependencies, and as long as msys2/mingw64 is > concerned, it is so much easier to install msys2 and then request > emacs from pacman than to package a standalone emacs. Lots of elisp > packages may require other mingw64 packages : a spell checker, git, > etc. It is easy to install them with pacman. The user will have a > much harder time with a standalone emacs. If you want a full emacs > experience, you need a full unix-like environment. The new "with-deps" build and installer of Emacs actually packages quite a bit of msys2/mingw64 including, for example, a python installation. I am sure this is overkill, but it is there. How much of this actually works (python does!) once it's been repackaged, I do not know. I'm not likely to find out in normal use, so I'd welcome feedback. Phil ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
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* Re: About DLLs needed by Emacs (W64) [not found] ` <877euh52xe.fsf-WS8JpuUeUJXe9xe1eoZjHA@public.gmane.org> @ 2017-11-23 7:15 ` Fabrice Popineau [not found] ` <CAFgFV9Njr1ZwTU4YBEezuMtz9cjsf1fBpin3=X0xCs1PeGBW7g-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> 2017-11-23 18:08 ` Phillip Lord 0 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Fabrice Popineau @ 2017-11-23 7:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Phillip Lord; +Cc: Óscar Fuentes, Eli Zaretskii, Msys2, Emacs developers [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1580 bytes --] 2017-11-23 0:06 GMT+01:00 Phillip Lord <phillip.lord-WS8JpuUeUJXe9xe1eoZjHA@public.gmane.org>: > Fabrice Popineau <fabrice.popineau-LuT7N8upsGq9tw52UnRK6UZa+K1vlBrA@public.gmane.org> writes: > > > 2017-11-20 18:31 GMT+01:00 Eli Zaretskii <eliz-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org>: > >> But in general, your point is valid: various optional libraries need > >> support > >> files to work properly. > >> > > > > Given the numerous dependencies, and as long as msys2/mingw64 is > > concerned, it is so much easier to install msys2 and then request > > emacs from pacman than to package a standalone emacs. Lots of elisp > > packages may require other mingw64 packages : a spell checker, git, > > etc. It is easy to install them with pacman. The user will have a > > much harder time with a standalone emacs. If you want a full emacs > > experience, you need a full unix-like environment. > > > The new "with-deps" build and installer of Emacs actually packages quite > a bit of msys2/mingw64 including, for example, a python > installation. > This is precisely the kind of drifting I hate. When on Windows I don't want to use the msys2 python because it doesn't play so well. I vastly prefer Anaconda (On GNU/Linux too btw) If you start to package Python with emacs, you'll end up packaging the whole MSys2. At least that should be made optional. One nasty thing about DLLs. Anaconda ships with libpng.dll and others which are dynamically loaded by emacs. Reason why in my own copy of Emacs, I have restricted the path where dlls are looked for to the emacs binary directory. Fabrice [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 2304 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 202 bytes --] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot [-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 192 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Msys2-users mailing list Msys2-users-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/msys2-users ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
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* Re: About DLLs needed by Emacs (W64) [not found] ` <CAFgFV9Njr1ZwTU4YBEezuMtz9cjsf1fBpin3=X0xCs1PeGBW7g-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> @ 2017-11-23 7:24 ` Fabrice Popineau 2017-11-23 18:09 ` [Msys2-users] " Phillip Lord 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Fabrice Popineau @ 2017-11-23 7:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Phillip Lord; +Cc: Óscar Fuentes, Eli Zaretskii, Msys2, Emacs developers [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2248 bytes --] And sorry if my answer seems rude because I know you did an amazing job for packaging this stuff. But there always will be a problem with overlapping packages which is difficult to solve. Fabrice 2017-11-23 8:15 GMT+01:00 Fabrice Popineau < fabrice.popineau-LuT7N8upsGq9tw52UnRK6UZa+K1vlBrA@public.gmane.org>: > > > 2017-11-23 0:06 GMT+01:00 Phillip Lord <phillip.lord-WS8JpuUeUJXe9xe1eoZjHA@public.gmane.org>: > >> Fabrice Popineau <fabrice.popineau-LuT7N8upsGq9tw52UnRK6UZa+K1vlBrA@public.gmane.org> writes: >> >> > 2017-11-20 18:31 GMT+01:00 Eli Zaretskii <eliz-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org>: >> >> But in general, your point is valid: various optional libraries need >> >> support >> >> files to work properly. >> >> >> > >> > Given the numerous dependencies, and as long as msys2/mingw64 is >> > concerned, it is so much easier to install msys2 and then request >> > emacs from pacman than to package a standalone emacs. Lots of elisp >> > packages may require other mingw64 packages : a spell checker, git, >> > etc. It is easy to install them with pacman. The user will have a >> > much harder time with a standalone emacs. If you want a full emacs >> > experience, you need a full unix-like environment. >> >> >> The new "with-deps" build and installer of Emacs actually packages quite >> a bit of msys2/mingw64 including, for example, a python >> installation. >> > > This is precisely the kind of drifting I hate. > When on Windows I don't want to use the msys2 python because it doesn't > play so well. > I vastly prefer Anaconda (On GNU/Linux too btw) > If you start to package Python with emacs, you'll end up packaging the > whole MSys2. > At least that should be made optional. > > One nasty thing about DLLs. Anaconda ships with libpng.dll and others > which are > dynamically loaded by emacs. Reason why in my own copy of Emacs, I have > restricted > the path where dlls are looked for to the emacs binary directory. > > Fabrice > -- Fabrice Popineau ----------------------------- CentraleSupelec Département Informatique 3, rue Joliot Curie 91192 Gif/Yvette Cedex Tel direct : +33 (0) 169851950 Standard : +33 (0) 169851212 ------------------------------ [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 3920 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 202 bytes --] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot [-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 192 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Msys2-users mailing list Msys2-users-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/msys2-users ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [Msys2-users] About DLLs needed by Emacs (W64) 2017-11-23 7:24 ` Fabrice Popineau @ 2017-11-23 18:09 ` Phillip Lord 0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Phillip Lord @ 2017-11-23 18:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fabrice Popineau Cc: Óscar Fuentes, Eli Zaretskii, Msys2, Emacs developers It's not a worry. Am happy to get feedback and you've been trying these things out. Getting windows binary testers can be a limiting factor here. Phil Fabrice Popineau <fabrice.popineau@centralesupelec.fr> writes: > And sorry if my answer seems rude because I know you did an amazing job > for packaging this stuff. But there always will be a problem with > overlapping packages > which is difficult to solve. > > Fabrice > > 2017-11-23 8:15 GMT+01:00 Fabrice Popineau < > fabrice.popineau@centralesupelec.fr>: > >> >> >> 2017-11-23 0:06 GMT+01:00 Phillip Lord <phillip.lord@russet.org.uk>: >> >>> Fabrice Popineau <fabrice.popineau@centralesupelec.fr> writes: >>> >>> > 2017-11-20 18:31 GMT+01:00 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>: >>> >> But in general, your point is valid: various optional libraries need >>> >> support >>> >> files to work properly. >>> >> >>> > >>> > Given the numerous dependencies, and as long as msys2/mingw64 is >>> > concerned, it is so much easier to install msys2 and then request >>> > emacs from pacman than to package a standalone emacs. Lots of elisp >>> > packages may require other mingw64 packages : a spell checker, git, >>> > etc. It is easy to install them with pacman. The user will have a >>> > much harder time with a standalone emacs. If you want a full emacs >>> > experience, you need a full unix-like environment. >>> >>> >>> The new "with-deps" build and installer of Emacs actually packages quite >>> a bit of msys2/mingw64 including, for example, a python >>> installation. >>> >> >> This is precisely the kind of drifting I hate. >> When on Windows I don't want to use the msys2 python because it doesn't >> play so well. >> I vastly prefer Anaconda (On GNU/Linux too btw) >> If you start to package Python with emacs, you'll end up packaging the >> whole MSys2. >> At least that should be made optional. >> >> One nasty thing about DLLs. Anaconda ships with libpng.dll and others >> which are >> dynamically loaded by emacs. Reason why in my own copy of Emacs, I have >> restricted >> the path where dlls are looked for to the emacs binary directory. >> >> Fabrice >> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [Msys2-users] About DLLs needed by Emacs (W64) 2017-11-23 7:15 ` Fabrice Popineau [not found] ` <CAFgFV9Njr1ZwTU4YBEezuMtz9cjsf1fBpin3=X0xCs1PeGBW7g-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> @ 2017-11-23 18:08 ` Phillip Lord 1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Phillip Lord @ 2017-11-23 18:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fabrice Popineau Cc: Óscar Fuentes, Eli Zaretskii, Msys2, Emacs developers Fabrice Popineau <fabrice.popineau@centralesupelec.fr> writes: > 2017-11-23 0:06 GMT+01:00 Phillip Lord <phillip.lord@russet.org.uk>: > >> Fabrice Popineau <fabrice.popineau@centralesupelec.fr> writes: >> >> > 2017-11-20 18:31 GMT+01:00 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>: >> >> But in general, your point is valid: various optional libraries need >> >> support >> >> files to work properly. >> >> >> > >> > Given the numerous dependencies, and as long as msys2/mingw64 is >> > concerned, it is so much easier to install msys2 and then request >> > emacs from pacman than to package a standalone emacs. Lots of elisp >> > packages may require other mingw64 packages : a spell checker, git, >> > etc. It is easy to install them with pacman. The user will have a >> > much harder time with a standalone emacs. If you want a full emacs >> > experience, you need a full unix-like environment. >> >> >> The new "with-deps" build and installer of Emacs actually packages quite >> a bit of msys2/mingw64 including, for example, a python >> installation. >> > > This is precisely the kind of drifting I hate. When on Windows I > don't want to use the msys2 python because it doesn't play so well. I > vastly prefer Anaconda (On GNU/Linux too btw) If you start to package > Python with emacs, you'll end up packaging the whole MSys2. At least > that should be made optional. Yes. Use the "-no-deps" zip file. > One nasty thing about DLLs. Anaconda ships with libpng.dll and others > which are dynamically loaded by emacs. Reason why in my own copy of > Emacs, I have restricted the path where dlls are looked for to the > emacs binary directory. Is that not the default? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [Msys2-users] About DLLs needed by Emacs (W64) 2017-11-22 23:06 ` [Msys2-users] " Phillip Lord [not found] ` <877euh52xe.fsf-WS8JpuUeUJXe9xe1eoZjHA@public.gmane.org> @ 2017-11-23 14:02 ` Richard Stallman [not found] ` <E1eHs51-0006JC-9T-iW7gFb+/I3LZHJUXO5efmti2O/JbrIOy@public.gmane.org> 2017-11-23 18:17 ` [Msys2-users] " Phillip Lord 1 sibling, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2017-11-23 14:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Phillip Lord; +Cc: ofv, eliz, fabrice.popineau, msys2-users, emacs-devel [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > The new "with-deps" build and installer of Emacs actually packages quite > a bit of msys2/mingw64 including, for example, a python > installation. Does this new packaging include any GPL-covered binaries that are not from Emacs itself? Would someone please check this carefully? If it does, the GPL (whichever version) requires distributing that source code as well. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See https://stallman.org/skype.html. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
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* Re: About DLLs needed by Emacs (W64) [not found] ` <E1eHs51-0006JC-9T-iW7gFb+/I3LZHJUXO5efmti2O/JbrIOy@public.gmane.org> @ 2017-11-23 16:28 ` Eli Zaretskii [not found] ` <834lplari3.fsf-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org> 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2017-11-23 16:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rms-mXXj517/zsQ Cc: ofv-39ZsbGIQGT7e5aOfsHch1g, msys2-users-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f, fabrice.popineau-LuT7N8upsGq9tw52UnRK6UZa+K1vlBrA, emacs-devel-mXXj517/zsQ, phillip.lord-WS8JpuUeUJXe9xe1eoZjHA > From: Richard Stallman <rms-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org> > CC: fabrice.popineau-LuT7N8upsGq9tw52UnRK6UZa+K1vlBrA@public.gmane.org, ofv-39ZsbGIQGT7e5aOfsHch1g@public.gmane.org, eliz-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org, > msys2-users-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org, emacs-devel-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org > Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 09:02:15 -0500 > > Does this new packaging include any GPL-covered binaries that are not > from Emacs itself? It does. > If it does, the GPL (whichever version) requires distributing that source code > as well. We do that, of course. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <834lplari3.fsf-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org>]
* Re: About DLLs needed by Emacs (W64) [not found] ` <834lplari3.fsf-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org> @ 2017-11-24 17:51 ` Richard Stallman 0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2017-11-24 17:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: ofv-39ZsbGIQGT7e5aOfsHch1g, msys2-users-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f, fabrice.popineau-LuT7N8upsGq9tw52UnRK6UZa+K1vlBrA, emacs-devel-mXXj517/zsQ, phillip.lord-WS8JpuUeUJXe9xe1eoZjHA [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > If it does, the GPL (whichever version) requires distributing that source code > > as well. > We do that, of course. I'm glad people remembered to do this. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See https://stallman.org/skype.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [Msys2-users] About DLLs needed by Emacs (W64) 2017-11-23 14:02 ` Richard Stallman [not found] ` <E1eHs51-0006JC-9T-iW7gFb+/I3LZHJUXO5efmti2O/JbrIOy@public.gmane.org> @ 2017-11-23 18:17 ` Phillip Lord 1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Phillip Lord @ 2017-11-23 18:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Richard Stallman; +Cc: ofv, eliz, fabrice.popineau, msys2-users, emacs-devel Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > The new "with-deps" build and installer of Emacs actually packages quite > > a bit of msys2/mingw64 including, for example, a python > > installation. > > Does this new packaging include any GPL-covered binaries that are not > from Emacs itself? Would someone please check this carefully? Almost certainly yes. > If it does, the GPL (whichever version) requires distributing that source code > as well. https://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/pretest/windows/emacs-26.0.90-deps-mingw-w64-src.zip.sig Which is the source for the dependency packages from msys. This was the reason I distributed Emacs and its dependencies separately for Emacs-25. I didn't work out how to get the source for the dependencies till after the Emacs-25 cycle had started, so could not distribute the dependencies in the first instance. Phil ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: About DLLs needed by Emacs (W64) [not found] ` <1639589366.4676.1511182396362-HsGP3tMACQiIsOV+laUMjw@public.gmane.org> 2017-11-20 13:55 ` David Macek @ 2017-11-20 15:52 ` Eli Zaretskii [not found] ` <83fu99dk21.fsf-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org> 1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2017-11-20 15:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Angelo Graziosi Cc: msys2-users-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f, emacs-devel-mXXj517/zsQ > Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 13:53:16 +0100 (CET) > From: Angelo Graziosi <angelo.g0-VGgt2q2+T+FeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org> > > Just out of curiosity, given the Emacs executable, is there a way to know the MSYS2/MinGW64 DLLs it needs? On MSYS2 I tried: > > ldd Emacs/bin/emacs-27.0.50.exe > ntdll.dll => /c/WINDOWS/SYSTEM32/ntdll.dll (0x7ffab5f30000) > KERNEL32.DLL => /c/WINDOWS/System32/KERNEL32.DLL (0x7ffab49b0000) > [...] > WINMMBASE.dll => /c/WINDOWS/SYSTEM32/WINMMBASE.dll (0x7ffab0620000) > IPHLPAPI.DLL => /c/WINDOWS/SYSTEM32/IPHLPAPI.DLL (0x7ffab18a0000) > bcrypt.dll => /c/WINDOWS/SYSTEM32/bcrypt.dll (0x7ffab1de0000) > > but it prints only Windows DLLs not all the others which come from MSYS2/MinGW64... Like this: objdump -x emacs.exe | fgrep "DLL Name:" However, if you are looking for the optional image libraries, libxml2, etc., you won't find them this way: Emacs loads them dynamically at run time by using explicit LoadLibrary calls. Maybe something like this: stringgs emacs.exe | fgrep -i ".dll" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
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* Re: About DLLs needed by Emacs (W64) [not found] ` <83fu99dk21.fsf-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org> @ 2017-11-20 22:12 ` Angelo Graziosi via Msys2-users 0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Angelo Graziosi via Msys2-users @ 2017-11-20 22:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: msys2-users-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f, emacs-devel-mXXj517/zsQ > Il 20 novembre 2017 alle 16.52 Eli Zaretskii ha scritto: > > Like this: > > objdump -x emacs.exe | fgrep "DLL Name:" > > However, if you are looking for the optional image libraries, libxml2, > etc., you won't find them this way: Emacs loads them dynamically at > run time by using explicit LoadLibrary calls. Maybe something like > this: > > strings emacs.exe | fgrep -i ".dll" It seems the question I flagged is not solvable as one would expect, in any case thanks for all your clarifications. Ciao, Angelo. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2017-11-24 17:51 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 19+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2017-11-20 12:53 About DLLs needed by Emacs (W64) Angelo Graziosi [not found] ` <1639589366.4676.1511182396362-HsGP3tMACQiIsOV+laUMjw@public.gmane.org> 2017-11-20 13:55 ` David Macek [not found] ` <4d86f0fd-d162-1287-861d-4527b8c0fd78-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> 2017-11-20 14:46 ` Fabrice Popineau 2017-11-20 15:04 ` Óscar Fuentes [not found] ` <8760a5t2iv.fsf-39ZsbGIQGT7e5aOfsHch1g@public.gmane.org> 2017-11-20 15:13 ` Fabrice Popineau [not found] ` <CAFgFV9OgzHsAWqi5ma9KWmHX63McYQc1OYrr+xE5kMKs5AOe1A-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> 2017-11-20 17:31 ` Eli Zaretskii [not found] ` <83a7zgeu21.fsf-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org> 2017-11-20 19:59 ` Fabrice Popineau [not found] ` <CAFgFV9O=UaWgVxOG0U=131vr9LrhwpsATmA369HMubTvao8r_A-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> 2017-11-20 20:28 ` Eli Zaretskii 2017-11-22 23:06 ` [Msys2-users] " Phillip Lord [not found] ` <877euh52xe.fsf-WS8JpuUeUJXe9xe1eoZjHA@public.gmane.org> 2017-11-23 7:15 ` Fabrice Popineau [not found] ` <CAFgFV9Njr1ZwTU4YBEezuMtz9cjsf1fBpin3=X0xCs1PeGBW7g-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> 2017-11-23 7:24 ` Fabrice Popineau 2017-11-23 18:09 ` [Msys2-users] " Phillip Lord 2017-11-23 18:08 ` Phillip Lord 2017-11-23 14:02 ` Richard Stallman [not found] ` <E1eHs51-0006JC-9T-iW7gFb+/I3LZHJUXO5efmti2O/JbrIOy@public.gmane.org> 2017-11-23 16:28 ` Eli Zaretskii [not found] ` <834lplari3.fsf-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org> 2017-11-24 17:51 ` Richard Stallman 2017-11-23 18:17 ` [Msys2-users] " Phillip Lord 2017-11-20 15:52 ` Eli Zaretskii [not found] ` <83fu99dk21.fsf-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org> 2017-11-20 22:12 ` Angelo Graziosi via Msys2-users
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