From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Matthias Meulien Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [NonGNU Elpa] New package: electric-french Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2023 21:31:42 +0200 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b3c1ee05fd52d62e" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="1105"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel To: Ruijie Yu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 04 21:32:51 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1q5tT7-000AaM-L3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 04 Jun 2023 21:32:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1q5tSM-00044b-6c; Sun, 04 Jun 2023 15:32:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1q5tSJ-00043x-83 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 04 Jun 2023 15:31:59 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ej1-x636.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::636]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1q5tSH-0000FF-2u for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 04 Jun 2023 15:31:59 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ej1-x636.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-977d0ee1736so108526066b.0 for ; Sun, 04 Jun 2023 12:31:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1685907115; x=1688499115; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=mCy0dG3PSFlGWRSDX8ZbADnfcezvHdyEerMHoSmoTQ4=; b=eDTSJmWcxb/UQ4+m9tTN4IxWL+uJQZS8SF97tdu9p0uLrYNM1aaiKlZTIvwSuZOtqt 4W1dFoNd/qdVuBGUnE+ArtIQqYAfsRmJotHqpC636MkLy3kCgblkK2DfGiDSYnEWLLvO d843JJxi5WYW2nUOM0wPNaEgvzcKTpLS0a4uojQarY/p79SvnXEdSX/L6y8IxDQHjr4y YtV173GJiwd7H3WjAKix7tP1CzGBNN9FbqPJDtB+Xlb4zj+W3ZDG00SnJ6f03Wlbzhzc jCN9AotwbPsJEhwMOQdbG/NMmPBiTt6p2ejsIeJCa+TOI+Z96aw+ZEaA8d1luMoRUvez 0F0g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1685907115; x=1688499115; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=mCy0dG3PSFlGWRSDX8ZbADnfcezvHdyEerMHoSmoTQ4=; b=Ol77OU9Aneimn5YoLsli/thIsu/B2L6bnM9LniFFRQ5rv6mMtD2i9vp/lrjA42Eqic kT3z7XGeITPaEfHG/EMyJrR6nZzfnyX45luykB+iuRyAOImsCUH8GPIf/0gnJX4jCv92 B6V/DfOcR2is8DO82+kUXjXscvx/m4iqMvLuRzCeo1unK0R4Okmu/j8Lm21foKdvdkwW nDI86osCs9rlluJwVgBCRMNyJowr3FMDnsbtFvtxmbJ9SvuDcbxrhPwmuJHPevcvOsqY a/+DzY5TyfTh7HzZqX5Qf6G9eMV3qtA2i1O6rWq9ivTiUwRQL6gJa8V7zRpWvw1Lfzs2 KmPQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AC+VfDxMwnG6rzB2BFWswYpuv0V4QzFWKXTN8LUi8zSHZytNu4ZXSn4F MNEx+oswUnry88G0Ul+7uDHY1M47X+JT3SM1OEA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ4F/fqGlArxrpsEiIHUmvrShs8H+PDCT+G1o0+hH7fofPkxW93tpuLzgi2bn4Yfp/GK+5U3gkt7DtgcBmFivCQ= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:1c10:b0:974:625d:183f with SMTP id nc16-20020a1709071c1000b00974625d183fmr4929734ejc.36.1685907114802; Sun, 04 Jun 2023 12:31:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::636; envelope-from=orontee@gmail.com; helo=mail-ej1-x636.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:306625 Archived-At: --000000000000b3c1ee05fd52d62e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks! I am a native french speaker and I would expect such a feature to replace the previous space with a non breaking space or insert a non breaking space. This is the behaviour implemented in Libre Office Writer AutoCorrection feature, Microsoft Word, etc. People are used to this and for a good reason: It doesn't interfere with their habit to enter space before most punctuation. Also I would be interested in such a feature if it was available out of the box: I don't have the motivation to remember package name, minor mode names, etc. to install packages for such small features. FYI at present time I am pressing "alt gr"+shift+space before punctuation chars when necessary. When writing HTML, there're mixed usage of punctuation characters (by CSS, Javascript and the content language) and I am not convinced that such libraries help... Le dim. 4 juin 2023 =C3=A0 16:57, Ruijie Yu via Emacs development discussio= ns. < emacs-devel@gnu.org> a =C3=A9crit : > Hello, > > I am proposing a new package called electric-french [1]. This stemmed > from a discussion on emacs-humanities [2], where Jean-Christophe > ("l@tlo") outlined a few common practices on nonbreak spaces in the > French language. See near the end of the message for the commentary > section. > > First of all, I want to know if any other French speakers are interested > in using this package -- in particular, whether this is beneficial in > general, more than only l@tlo. > > Secondly, if people are indeed interested, I hope this can ultimately go > to GNU elpa, but since I am still trying to get an employer disclaimer > (without which I am very reluctant to making any FSF open source > contributions), I don't want to propose its inclusion into elpa.git at > this very moment, hence this proposal into nongnu.git as a "temporary > workaround". > > Alternatively, we can also pretend it were proposed for elpa.git, and > postpone the actual inclusion until everything settles on my end -- of > course, only if enough people are interested in this package. > > I welcome any type of comments. Anything, including the package name, > can change with a valid reason. Though fluent in English, I am not a > native speaker, so there may be occasional errors on wording. Nor am I > so much a French speaker, and most information present in the package > were either provided by l@tlo or obtained via some quick [search > engine]'ing around, so any correction on that is welcome. Thanks. > > (And I know I need to add the part-of/not-part-of Emacs paragraph to the > header. I'll add it when I know which elpa we are looking at.) > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > ;;; Commentary: > > ;; This library facilitates adhering to various spacing > ;; requirements of French literature. It provides a minor mode, > ;; where when enabled, inserts nonbreak spaces before or after a > ;; character whenever required. By default, this includes all > ;; "two-part" punctuations (such as ?, !, etc.) and all quotation > ;; punctuations. > > ;; There are three customizable options at the moment: > > ;; - `electric-french-nonbreak-space': the space character / > ;; string to use for the nonbreak space. Apparently, different > ;; locales use differenc space characters. See details at > ;; > ;; on emacs-humanities@gnu.org. > > ;; - `electric-french-prepend-space-puncts' and > ;; `electric-french-append-space-puncts': which characters > ;; should have nonbreak spaces prepended, or appended, to them, > ;; respectively. > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > [1]: https://git.sr.ht/~ruijieyu/electric-french > [2]: > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-humanities/2023-05/msg00000.html > > -- > Best, > > > RY > > --=20 Matthias --000000000000b3c1ee05fd52d62e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks!

I am a native frenc= h speaker and I would expect such a feature to replace the previous space w= ith a non breaking space or insert a non breaking space. This is the behavi= our implemented in Libre Office Writer AutoCorrection feature, Microsoft Wo= rd, etc. People are used to this and for a good reason: It doesn't inte= rfere with their habit to enter space before most punctuation.

Also I would be interested in such a feature if it was ava= ilable out of the box: I don't have the motivation to remember package = name, minor mode names, etc. to install packages for such small features.

FYI at present time I am pressing "alt gr"= ;+shift+space before punctuation chars when necessary.

=
When writing HTML, there're mixed usage of punctuation characters = (by CSS, Javascript and the content language) and I am not convinced that s= uch libraries help...

Le=C2=A0dim. 4 juin 2023 =C3=A0=C2=A016:57, = Ruijie Yu via Emacs development discussions. <emacs-devel@gnu.org> a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
Hello,

I am proposing a new package called electric-french [1].=C2=A0 This stemmed=
from a discussion on emacs-humanities [2], where Jean-Christophe
("l@tlo") outlined a few common practices on nonbreak spaces in t= he
French language.=C2=A0 See near the end of the message for the commentary section.

First of all, I want to know if any other French speakers are interested in using this package -- in particular, whether this is beneficial in
general, more than only l@tlo.

Secondly, if people are indeed interested, I hope this can ultimately go to GNU elpa, but since I am still trying to get an employer disclaimer
(without which I am very reluctant to making any FSF open source
contributions), I don't want to propose its inclusion into elpa.git at<= br> this very moment, hence this proposal into nongnu.git as a "temporary<= br> workaround".

Alternatively, we can also pretend it were proposed for elpa.git, and
postpone the actual inclusion until everything settles on my end -- of
course, only if enough people are interested in this package.

I welcome any type of comments.=C2=A0 Anything, including the package name,=
can change with a valid reason.=C2=A0 Though fluent in English, I am not a<= br> native speaker, so there may be occasional errors on wording.=C2=A0 Nor am = I
so much a French speaker, and most information present in the package
were either provided by l@tlo or obtained via some quick [search
engine]'ing around, so any correction on that is welcome.=C2=A0 Thanks.=

(And I know I need to add the part-of/not-part-of Emacs paragraph to the header.=C2=A0 I'll add it when I know which elpa we are looking at.)
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
;;; Commentary:

;; This library facilitates adhering to various spacing
;; requirements of French literature.=C2=A0 It provides a minor mode,
;; where when enabled, inserts nonbreak spaces before or after a
;; character whenever required.=C2=A0 By default, this includes all
;; "two-part" punctuations (such as ?, !, etc.) and all quotation=
;; punctuations.

;; There are three customizable options at the moment:

;; - `electric-french-nonbreak-space': the space character /
;;=C2=A0 =C2=A0string to use for the nonbreak space.=C2=A0 Apparently, diff= erent
;;=C2=A0 =C2=A0locales use differenc space characters.=C2=A0 See details at=
;;=C2=A0 =C2=A0<msgid:5FB8702E-0499-4231-AD2= C-55906C27B60F@traduction-libre.org>
;;=C2=A0 =C2=A0on emacs-humanities@gnu.org.

;; - `electric-french-prepend-space-puncts' and
;;=C2=A0 =C2=A0`electric-french-append-space-puncts': which characters<= br> ;;=C2=A0 =C2=A0should have nonbreak spaces prepended, or appended, to them,=
;;=C2=A0 =C2=A0respectively.
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

[1]: https://git.sr.ht/~ruijieyu/electric-french
[2]: https://lists.gnu.org/= archive/html/emacs-humanities/2023-05/msg00000.html

--
Best,


RY



--
Matthias --000000000000b3c1ee05fd52d62e--