* How to keep getting org updates @ 2021-10-11 20:14 Galaxy Being 2021-10-12 5:18 ` Greg Minshall 2021-10-12 6:21 ` Tim Cross 0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Galaxy Being @ 2021-10-11 20:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Mailinglist [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 427 bytes --] This is in my init.el ... (setq package-archives '(("ELPA" . "http://tromey.com/elpa/") ("gnu" . "http://elpa.gnu.org/packages/") ("melpa" . "https://melpa.org/packages/") ("org" . "https://orgmode.org/elpa/"))) ... I'm guessing the last line is no more and should be removed? In any case, not getting 9.5 when I do a package update. -- ⨽ Lawrence Bottorff Grand Marais, MN, USA borgauf@gmail.com [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1047 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: How to keep getting org updates 2021-10-11 20:14 How to keep getting org updates Galaxy Being @ 2021-10-12 5:18 ` Greg Minshall 2021-10-12 6:21 ` Tim Cross 1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Greg Minshall @ 2021-10-12 5:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Galaxy Being; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Mailinglist Lawrence, in case it helps, my *straight.el* (not package.el) recipe looks like this: ---- (org :type git :repo "https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/emacs/org-mode.git" :local-repo "org" :depth full :pre-build (straight-recipes-org-elpa--build) :build (:not autoloads) :files (:defaults "lisp/*.el" ("etc/styles/" "etc/styles/*"))) ---- cheers, Greg ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: How to keep getting org updates 2021-10-11 20:14 How to keep getting org updates Galaxy Being 2021-10-12 5:18 ` Greg Minshall @ 2021-10-12 6:21 ` Tim Cross 2021-10-13 4:54 ` Galaxy Being 1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Tim Cross @ 2021-10-12 6:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Galaxy Being <borgauf@gmail.com> writes: > This is in my init.el > > ... > (setq package-archives '(("ELPA" . "http://tromey.com/elpa/") > ("gnu" . "http://elpa.gnu.org/packages/") > ("melpa" . "https://melpa.org/packages/") > ("org" . "https://orgmode.org/elpa/"))) > ... > > I'm guessing the last line is no more and should be removed? In any case, not getting 9.5 when I do a package update. The 9.5 version is in GNU ELPA. However, if you have a version from orgmode.org or melpa, the version number is probably the release date e.g. 20211001 or example, and package.el will see that as a later version to 9.5 (because 20211001 is a larger number!). My suggestion would be to uninstall any version you have installed and then install the 9.5 version from ELPA. I would also remove the orgmode.org repository as you mention. It may also be worthwhile 'inning' org to the ELPA repository (which should mean package.el will only look at the ELPA repository when looking for updates (and not, for example, MELPA). If your running the emacs 28 pretest, it already includes 9.5 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: How to keep getting org updates 2021-10-12 6:21 ` Tim Cross @ 2021-10-13 4:54 ` Galaxy Being 2021-10-13 9:55 ` Greg Minshall 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Galaxy Being @ 2021-10-13 4:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Tim Cross; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Mailinglist [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2349 bytes --] What do you mean by 'inning' org to the ELPA repository? What I've done was to remove the last line in my init.el for ... orgmode.org/elpa, restarted, then tried through list-packages to D org -- which seemed to comply, but never removed org-20210920 from the elpa directory. Not being gone, the old version kept reinstalling itself. So I finally manually moved org-20210920 somewhere else. But then repeated restarts never brought org-9.5 into the list-packages listing, despite having gnu/elpa in my init.el. But I did manage to "trick" 9.5 in by installing an org package with org, naturally, needed as a dependent. It offered some other version, but the "other version" install window knew about latest-greatest 9.5, which I chose, thereby "tricking" 9.5 to be installed. Org-9.5 is now listed only as a dependency in list-packages, of all things. I commented out my org-plus-contrib, not knowing how to proceed with it. The install instructions on the main org page were not very clear, to say the least. On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 1:33 AM Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> wrote: > > Galaxy Being <borgauf@gmail.com> writes: > > > This is in my init.el > > > > ... > > (setq package-archives '(("ELPA" . "http://tromey.com/elpa/") > > ("gnu" . "http://elpa.gnu.org/packages/") > > ("melpa" . "https://melpa.org/packages/") > > ("org" . "https://orgmode.org/elpa/"))) > > ... > > > > I'm guessing the last line is no more and should be removed? In any > case, not getting 9.5 when I do a package update. > > The 9.5 version is in GNU ELPA. However, if you have a version from > orgmode.org or melpa, the version number is probably the release date > e.g. 20211001 or example, and package.el will see that as a later > version to 9.5 (because 20211001 is a larger number!). > > My suggestion would be to uninstall any version you have installed and > then install the 9.5 version from ELPA. I would also remove the > orgmode.org repository as you mention. It may also be worthwhile > 'inning' org to the ELPA repository (which should mean package.el will > only look at the ELPA repository when looking for updates (and not, for > example, MELPA). > > If your running the emacs 28 pretest, it already includes 9.5 > > -- ⨽ Lawrence Bottorff Grand Marais, MN, USA borgauf@gmail.com [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3580 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: How to keep getting org updates 2021-10-13 4:54 ` Galaxy Being @ 2021-10-13 9:55 ` Greg Minshall 2021-10-13 15:13 ` Galaxy Being 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Greg Minshall @ 2021-10-13 9:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Galaxy Being; +Cc: Tim Cross, emacs-orgmode Mailinglist > The install instructions on the main org page were not very clear, to > say the least. yes, that does sound messy. sorry your experience was so unfortunate. i guess one question for the list: is there a general solution to the "20200912" > "9.5" issue? or, "now" that we are only distributing via [git repository and] gnu elpa, will that issue disappear? does this new-fangled concept of "semantic versioning" come into play here? possibly in the info pages we could have a section on "re-installing/upgrading", to help people navigate this process. (once we, ourselves, have a map.) cheers, Greg ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: How to keep getting org updates 2021-10-13 9:55 ` Greg Minshall @ 2021-10-13 15:13 ` Galaxy Being 2021-10-13 20:49 ` Tim Cross 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Galaxy Being @ 2021-10-13 15:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Greg Minshall; +Cc: Tim Cross, emacs-orgmode Mailinglist [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1427 bytes --] Appreciate the help and encouragement. This pinning business ... seems like musical chairs with different suggestions here and there. Should I use this <https://www.lonecpluspluscoder.com/2014/11/25/using-elpa-pinned-packages-gnu-emacs-24-4/> suggestion, or maybe this <https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/iyzs29/is_there_a_way_to_pin_a_package_to_a_specific/> one, or...? And where is the maintained list of packages? I see .../elpa/archives/ but don't see anything else. Sorry to be a help vampire, but I've never gotten past "casual Emacs user" status and don't think I ever will with my hectic schedule. On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 4:55 AM Greg Minshall <minshall@umich.edu> wrote: > > The install instructions on the main org page were not very clear, to > > say the least. > > yes, that does sound messy. sorry your experience was so unfortunate. > > i guess one question for the list: is there a general solution to the > "20200912" > "9.5" issue? or, "now" that we are only distributing via > [git repository and] gnu elpa, will that issue disappear? does this > new-fangled concept of "semantic versioning" come into play here? > > possibly in the info pages we could have a section on > "re-installing/upgrading", to help people navigate this process. (once > we, ourselves, have a map.) > > cheers, Greg > -- ⨽ Lawrence Bottorff Grand Marais, MN, USA borgauf@gmail.com [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2012 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: How to keep getting org updates 2021-10-13 15:13 ` Galaxy Being @ 2021-10-13 20:49 ` Tim Cross 2021-10-14 4:11 ` Greg Minshall 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Tim Cross @ 2021-10-13 20:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Galaxy Being; +Cc: Greg Minshall, emacs-orgmode Mailinglist Galaxy Being <borgauf@gmail.com> writes: > Appreciate the help and encouragement. This pinning business ... seems like musical chairs with different suggestions here and > there. Should I use this suggestion, or maybe this one, or...? And where is the maintained list of packages? I see > .../elpa/archives/ but don't see anything else. Sorry to be a help vampire, but I've never gotten past "casual Emacs user" status > and don't think I ever will with my hectic schedule. > I think it is always a mistake to google for answers without first checking what Emacs has in the built-in documentation and manual. What is in the Emacs manual or docstrings for variables and functions is guaranteed to be accurate for the version of Emacs your running. What you find googling and serching reddit, stack overflow, etc is more often than not outdated and from what I've seen, often incorrect. A little time getting to learn the help commands bound to C-h will save you much time in the long run. Running C-h d v package-pinned-packages shows the following, which explains how to set the variable for pinning packages. package-pinned-packages is a variable defined in ‘package.el’. Its value is nil An alist of packages that are pinned to specific archives. This can be useful if you have multiple package archives enabled, and want to control which archive a given package gets installed from. Each element of the alist has the form (PACKAGE . ARCHIVE), where: PACKAGE is a symbol representing a package ARCHIVE is a string representing an archive (it should be the car of an element in ‘package-archives’, e.g. "gnu"). Adding an entry to this variable means that only ARCHIVE will be considered as a source for PACKAGE. If other archives provide PACKAGE, they are ignored (for this package). If ARCHIVE does not contain PACKAGE, the package will be unavailable. This variable may be risky if used as a file-local variable. This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in version 24.4 of Emacs. You can customize this variable. So you would probably want something like (setq package-pinned-packages '(('org . "gnu"))) assuming "gnu" is the name associated with the elpa.gnu.org archive. There is also a good overview of the package management system in the Emacs manual. Reading this will provide all the details you need and often provide more than one possible solution. For example, you can also set the priority of different archives so that packages from one archive will have a higher priority than the same package from another archive. The list of installed packages I was referring to is in the 'custom' section of your init file and is called package-selected-packages. The C-h d v for this variable is Store here packages installed explicitly by user. This variable is fed automatically by Emacs when installing a new package. This variable is used by ‘package-autoremove’ to decide which packages are no longer needed. You can use it to (re)install packages on other machines by running ‘package-install-selected-packages’. To check if a package is contained in this list here, use ‘package--user-selected-p’, as it may populate the variable with a sane initial value. This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in version 25.1 of Emacs. You can customize this variable. If your short on time and don't feel you can spend time to get into the guts of Emacs, then I would also recommend reading the manual section on customization and use the built-in Emacs customize interface to configure your system rather than a hand crafted init.el file. I think you have two choices when it comes to Emacs. Either you stick with what comes 'out of the box', which includes adding additional packages from the standard ELPA and non-gnu ELPA repositories and use the built in custom system to configure emacs, which has the advantage of requiring minimal knowledge/understanding of the Emacs ecosystem or you decide to be more advanced and update to latest versions of some/all of the things you use, which requires more effort and time spent to learn more of the intricacies of the ecosystem. The worst approach is to crate an emacs init.el file filled with little bits of elisp gathered from various forums which you don't really understand. While this might make it appear to work OK, it leaves you high and dry when something stops working and you cannot fix it. > On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 4:55 AM Greg Minshall <minshall@umich.edu> wrote: > > > The install instructions on the main org page were not very clear, to > > say the least. > > yes, that does sound messy. sorry your experience was so unfortunate. > > i guess one question for the list: is there a general solution to the > "20200912" > "9.5" issue? or, "now" that we are only distributing via > [git repository and] gnu elpa, will that issue disappear? does this > new-fangled concept of "semantic versioning" come into play here? > > possibly in the info pages we could have a section on > "re-installing/upgrading", to help people navigate this process. (once > we, ourselves, have a map.) > > cheers, Greg ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: How to keep getting org updates 2021-10-13 20:49 ` Tim Cross @ 2021-10-14 4:11 ` Greg Minshall 0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Greg Minshall @ 2021-10-14 4:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Tim Cross; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Mailinglist, Galaxy Being hi, Tim, > I think it is always a mistake to google for answers without first > checking what Emacs has in the built-in documentation and manual. What > is in the Emacs manual or docstrings for variables and functions is > guaranteed to be accurate for the version of Emacs your running. What > you find googling and serching reddit, stack overflow, etc is more often > than not outdated and from what I've seen, often incorrect. A little > time getting to learn the help commands bound to C-h will save you much > time in the long run. this is undoubtedly true, though i certainly find myself googling a fair amount, comparing answers to see if there is consensus. and, then, often, using those results to dive into the manual (or the mailing list archives) to see if i can find "official" guidance. > Running C-h d v package-pinned-packages shows the following, which > explains how to set the variable for pinning packages. for example, i might google, and find that `package-pinned-packages` was a variable of interest. i strongly agree that staying an "out-of-the-box" user, setting options with Emacs' customization interface (and, i guess, using ELPA), is the way to go if you want to be spared of many details (which can be daunting, and are approximately infinite :). but, all that said, didn't some of us on the list (even, iiuc, "out of the box" users) have problems upgrading from previous ELPA'ish versions of org-mode to the 9.5 version, because of the confusion of ELPA (?) non-semantic version numbers appearing to be greater than "9.5"? that was really what i was considering, and wondering how to document that issue in the info pages, so the official documentation will, in fact, help people upgrade. (though maybe the answer here is, "stay with the non-gnu ELPA [or base Emacs] version of org-mode you are currently using until you upgrade to Emacs 28, at which point you will automatically follow the box to org-mode 9.5"?) cheers, Greg ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2021-10-14 4:12 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2021-10-11 20:14 How to keep getting org updates Galaxy Being 2021-10-12 5:18 ` Greg Minshall 2021-10-12 6:21 ` Tim Cross 2021-10-13 4:54 ` Galaxy Being 2021-10-13 9:55 ` Greg Minshall 2021-10-13 15:13 ` Galaxy Being 2021-10-13 20:49 ` Tim Cross 2021-10-14 4:11 ` Greg Minshall
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