From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?Ren=C3=A9_Kyllingstad?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs as word processor Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 10:54:50 +0100 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: Rene@Kyllingstad.com NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e011603c6c57c7104ec9e4aec X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1386064527 4924 80.91.229.3 (3 Dec 2013 09:55:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 09:55:27 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Emacs Dev \[emacs-devel\]" To: Hendrik Boom Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 03 10:55:30 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VnmhU-0002UH-38 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 03 Dec 2013 10:55:28 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41334 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VnmhT-0005Zj-P8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 03 Dec 2013 04:55:27 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:32879) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VnmhK-0005Yk-Eg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 03 Dec 2013 04:55:24 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VnmhE-0003gV-8c for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 03 Dec 2013 04:55:18 -0500 Original-Received: from mail1.g4.pair.com ([66.39.3.119]:38129) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VnmhE-0003gQ-2j for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 03 Dec 2013 04:55:12 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-oa0-f48.google.com (mail-oa0-f48.google.com [209.85.219.48]) by mail1.g4.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BAC3F3F7EF for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2013 04:55:10 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: by mail-oa0-f48.google.com with SMTP id l6so14454188oag.7 for ; Tue, 03 Dec 2013 01:55:10 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=ybe3371py6obFSPAJ5/Y38fuUond+IEwbZ3EdwnwmS4=; b=L7Mo2P/h+6SEfhPv4RE95STXKbyt9pZlHvjetvJoZKrugpKYRCKWxIoZdhMzgi3++b TvvXfWLA+TyF+goyNVsWPY6rSXrfXaFH8r1RPdHyCgcjS5rURjg+uNkHVgx+zMBwiu2l n2mIn8z70qIBw96Yg0YJN/FdfLQdsENuxi9xbJCFQoWyCSD45ieAziaO76zjcvKPN+E+ ByvH50lLTQHClVzCF4m5JIxnPdQdhAEtj1q9htxsL/yQ7NUqCkvAPf9stLlF1kMVxgFy 3ZGdMDoe9uHeuaTfDbEmKDiBQ8pwmT4e2p6Th7bqI8JtuMyhUYEeS+TIuyT99AY07cq7 R+0A== X-Received: by 10.60.95.135 with SMTP id dk7mr19381000oeb.11.1386064510275; Tue, 03 Dec 2013 01:55:10 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.182.221.225 with HTTP; Tue, 3 Dec 2013 01:54:50 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 9.x X-Received-From: 66.39.3.119 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:166034 Archived-At: --089e011603c6c57c7104ec9e4aec Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:30 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote= : > On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 02:28:51 -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: > > > 25 years ago I hoped we would extend Emacs to do WYSIWG word processing= . > > That is why we added text properties and variable width fonts. > > However, more features are still needed to achieve this. > > > > Could people please start working on the features that are needed? > > I've introduced minimal mark-up, so that I can specify italics and such > when I need them. And I wrote a program to convert the (almost) plain- > text to .fodt so I can feed it into LibreOffice for a nice printout. > > Maybe I should just have used asciidoc or markdown. But when I started > on this stuff I didn't know about those tools, and maybe the didn't exist > yet. > =E2=80=8BWhat about making some version of markdown the storage format? On read Emacs converts the markdown to text properties. On save it's converted to markdown. =E2=80=8BSeems like this could be made to work well enough for simple docum= ents, and would be more pleasant to look at than the markdown. One could either type the markdown and have it update on the fly, or use commands to switch to italic, insert bullet point, change bullet style, right-align, etc. This would only support the style way of editing, not directly setting font properties of some text. Configuring the style is done with customize-face, and any improvements to that would benefit the rest of Emacs. Having reflow to a specific paper size could be an orthogonal feature, turned on and off for this or other modes. It might be nice to edit the first draft with reflow to the current window size, and then turn on paper size and margins when getting ready to print. This does not at all attack the fundamental problem of layout in Emacs, which means it would be relatively simple to implement. -- Ren=C3=A9 --089e011603c6c57c7104ec9e4aec Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 a= t 8:30 PM, Hendrik Boom <hendrik@t= opoi.pooq.com> wrote:
On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 02:28:51 -0500, Richard Stallman wrote:=

> 25 years ago I hoped we would extend Emacs to do WYSIWG word processin= g.
> =C2=A0That is why we added text properties and variable width fonts. > However, more features are still needed to achieve this.
>
> Could people please start working on the features that are needed?

I've introduced minimal mark-up, so that I can specify italics and = such
when I need them. =C2=A0And I wrote a program to convert the (almost) plain= -
text to .fodt so I can feed it into LibreOffice for a nice printout.

Maybe I should just have used asciidoc or markdown. =C2=A0But when I =C2=A0= started
on this stuff I didn't know about those tools, and maybe the didn't= exist
yet.

=E2=80=8BWhat about making some= version of markdown the storage format?

On read Emacs converts the markdown to text properties. On sav= e it's converted to markdown.

=E2=80=8BSeems like this could be made to work well enough for= simple documents, and would be more pleasant to look at than the markdown.=

One could either type the markdown and have it update on th= e fly, or use commands to switch to italic, insert bullet point, change bul= let style, right-align, etc.

This would only support the style way of editing, not direc= tly setting font properties of some text. Configuring the style is done wit= h customize-face, and any improvements to that would benefit the rest of Em= acs.

Having reflow to a specific paper size could be an orthogon= al feature, turned on and off for this or other modes. It might be nice to = edit the first draft with reflow to the current window size, and then turn = on paper size and margins when getting ready to print.

This does not at all attack the fundamental problem of layo= ut in Emacs, which means it would be relatively simple to implement.


-- Ren=C3=A9


--089e011603c6c57c7104ec9e4aec--