From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Rudi C Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: My perspective as a mid-level user on pros/cons of different editors Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 16:05:25 +0430 Message-ID: References: <251c030a-ade3-e945-d7a3-77cdbebc1812@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000073cb2e05a612cbef" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="31018"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "emacs-devel@gnu.org" To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed May 20 13:36:10 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jbN17-0007wV-4r for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 20 May 2020 13:36:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38036 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jbN16-0007JX-7B for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 20 May 2020 07:36:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33490) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jbN0d-0006uA-06 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 May 2020 07:35:39 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-oi1-x22b.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::22b]:41919) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jbN0b-0004zH-Oe for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 May 2020 07:35:38 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-oi1-x22b.google.com with SMTP id 23so1388184oiq.8 for ; Wed, 20 May 2020 04:35:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=/BE5b2ozvZw8/etFgu7Oc25x+Nq7z+4JdVW/F/Uqkjw=; b=BIbsEVtQyUkPEpKoCeiyvN2MSZvI57SdkCUtISHVa5ovzDAgVlhNqdezJNiUaHpNaq HNC+paaXtXF76vUPDVRfAbDv6bQOa+CZgujdP39HdA+KB8//OFj5glr308VyIHKk8qpd Gcbs/8yGqZcgVlTPF+9bZIAlfDPpYrCyK0IqLYVEXNOOG34xYEtVUn6VUOUz5BLdkYvk /JUhTbUrY+9dh5ld5WIke05uaLMqn9dPV2wBIZBVokQLB1pyJmNJTofbu1lLVFTlj6BJ v62C9f08FlLrZlWcDBOvDk//eA8B6nZDBBOgxXWP10/tCpIMxxXog66JXd7e84wihKz1 ekSA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=/BE5b2ozvZw8/etFgu7Oc25x+Nq7z+4JdVW/F/Uqkjw=; b=RXRj5HxLp4GU3q0f2HJsBscQuqll6zGRF77oUGHNvPpX6lz4+mRxaz05Btxt4nC0jE /EQ+h1FrquI9XQEHVR/jd09bFoOH36ryE64VvqZfZODjGWauP1EWP6hIG3X/xe7mBvuu 7IPlDEsXGE3IT6+xsWXJBH0uBxrjQkoh78uF8VFqK4Ath76b6rtp5EbQHFehqEk6H5FQ IxojcbfBnH18T4W6bhXQ8YsRLR75x/Dk3GC3OVqHddlksQAsHO1SULJDx7MJXP4KuKIh s/pzOku/o2Ttc/e6Ki2C+OXyRL3Tat7nGpjv/cP2alKGd7xjAcWTivTyYg4AisNyiu0V TSQA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533Coxd/bXe8PNq0T8wVPxDIhhxS8jhIJclJ/V0fEHPsSn8kOE7/ HA+lJFfaAwXYY8I1AYIiL/1vSMuc4+tyb/IcpJI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw1O4GhL+7dkNuTRZzs/y/6Wh20SCVpBtAz8s/0lZVgutmpUOn60eiRDa1L0gz8Iogi0mKfyIyOuQCw5GBdIi8= X-Received: by 2002:aca:be41:: with SMTP id o62mr2823289oif.133.1589974536537; Wed, 20 May 2020 04:35:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <251c030a-ade3-e945-d7a3-77cdbebc1812@yandex.ru> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::22b; envelope-from=rudiwillalwaysloveyou@gmail.com; helo=mail-oi1-x22b.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:251026 Archived-At: --00000000000073cb2e05a612cbef Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I was happy with the verilog-mode! It was great! I mean it didn't have many IDE features (just syntax highlighting?) but that was all I needed. I am saying emacs is good for this stuff! :D I have not tried eglot. I imagined it would not be different from the lsp clients set up by Spacemacs and Doom. (My experience with Spacemacs' lsp support was nightmarish. The nonfunctional, intrusive, slow lsp kept activating itself even when disabled. I had to exclude all lsp packages and even then sometimes lsp showed up. :| ) I'm trying eglot out now. :-) But even if it is good, I think it's important that such core functionality be given first-class support. Neovim has also adopted this approach, and is rolling its own builtin lsp client despite already having a few clients. On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 6:06 AM Dmitry Gutov wrote: > Hi Rudi, > > Thanks for the write-up. > > Just a few brief comments. > > On 20.05.2020 03:29, Rudi C wrote: > > # Plain Emacs > > > > I have never tried plain, unconfigured emacs except for reporting bugs. > > My first impression of its UI is bad. I think hiding the toolbar > > improves the UI. > > The toolbar's look depends on the OS and the DE. They look reasonable > under GNOME, for instance. > > > In summary, Emacs is good for some specific well-supported languages > > (even then with lots of harassment and breakages), and obscure languages > > that are not supported well anywhere (e.g., verilog) > > verilog-mode is developed externally and has an issue tracker here: > https://github.com/veripool/verilog-mode/issues > > You might have more luck if you report whatever problems you're having. > > > - Complete, first-class LSP support. Without this, all the fancy > > features of emacs are basically useless. Remember, a car needs first and > > foremost to move people from A to B. A stationary car with a rocket > > launcher is cool but also not much of a car. > > Have you tried Eglot? > --00000000000073cb2e05a612cbef Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I was happy with the verilog-mode! It was great! I mean it= didn't have many IDE features (just syntax highlighting?) but that was= all I needed. I am saying emacs is good for this stuff! :D
I have not = tried eglot. I imagined it would not be different from the lsp clients set = up by Spacemacs and Doom. (My experience with Spacemacs' lsp support wa= s nightmarish. The nonfunctional, intrusive, slow lsp kept activating itsel= f even when disabled. I had to exclude all lsp packages and even then somet= imes lsp showed up. :| ) I'm trying eglot out now. :-) But even if it i= s good, I think it's important that such core functionality be given fi= rst-class support. Neovim has also adopted this approach, and is rolling it= s own builtin lsp client despite already having a few clients.
<= br>
On Wed,= May 20, 2020 at 6:06 AM Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> wrote:
Hi Rudi,

Thanks for the write-up.

Just a few brief comments.

On 20.05.2020 03:29, Rudi C wrote:
> # Plain Emacs
>
> I have never tried plain, unconfigured emacs except for reporting bugs= .
> My first impression of its UI is bad. I think hiding the toolbar
> improves the UI.

The toolbar's look depends on the OS and the DE. They look reasonable <= br> under GNOME, for instance.

> In summary, Emacs is good for some specific well-supported languages <= br> > (even then with lots of harassment and breakages), and obscure languag= es
> that are not supported well anywhere (e.g., verilog)

verilog-mode is developed externally and has an issue tracker here:
https://github.com/veripool/verilog-mode/issues
You might have more luck if you report whatever problems you're having.=

> - Complete, first-class LSP support. Without this, all the fancy
> features of emacs are basically useless. Remember, a car needs first a= nd
> foremost to move people from A to B. A stationary car with a rocket > launcher is cool but also not much of a car.

Have you tried Eglot?
--00000000000073cb2e05a612cbef--