From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#73853: 31.0.50; Should and-let* become a synonym for when-let*? 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Wed, 30 Oct 2024 16:10:45 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 30 Oct 2024 18:10:44 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87ed3zndd6.fsf@bernoul.li> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:294586 Archived-At: Jonas Bernoulli writes: > It is very disappointing that you have chosen to deprecate if-let and > when-let in such a rushed manner. The same was done and reverted in > 2018, and many of the same actors are involved this time around. > I am surprised that you would make the same unforced error again. > > Reading through this and past conversations it is clear that there is no > consensus what the ultimate goal is. But as far as I can tell, few, if > any, are fully satisfied with the current (30.0.*) situation. There > also seems to be agreement that unfortunate mistakes were made in the > past, which limits our options now. The goal is: - To not have two macros doing the same thing, i.e. the pairs `when-let`/`when-let*` and `if-let`/`if-let*`. - To deprecate the single binding version of `when-let`. > This could have been prevented if more people (including non-debbugs and > non-emacs-devel regulars) were given a chance to think about the problem > and time to articulate their concerns and proposals, before facts were > created. Or even if the people who did take part in past conversations > had spend more time actually talking things through. I can agree that the timeline might have been on the shorter end here. That said, I wasn't aware of any large controversy surrounding this. If I was, I might have suggested that we give this more time. > The same could have been done every time the dissatisfying state of the > foo-let forms was brought up again, but instead new facts were rushed at > every turn. > > Without stopping this destructive pattern, you won't be able to fix this > mess. I don't know what this is in reference to, sorry. I feel like I'm missing some background. Could you perhaps help fill me in? I searched the archives, but failed to find anything relevant. > My short-term proposal is this: Hmm, the points you raise are interesting but procedural in character. Besides your concern that people might be unhappy with the decision, a point that is fully taken, perhaps it would help if we could focus on technical points instead. Your proposal seems to be that we should rethink the decision to mark `when-let`/`if-let` as obsolete. Is that correct? If yes, perhaps you could explain this in more detail? What problem do you see with marking them as obsolete? Do you have a suggestion for what we should do instead?