From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Brand new clojure support in Emacs ;-) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 09:28:02 -0700 Message-ID: References: <87il9kksqz.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83350ncbns.fsf@gnu.org> <87cyzrjbd8.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83zg2vav46.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7j99304.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87zg2hsyrd.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87h6ontwfv.fsf@posteo.net> <835y4ucrz3.fsf@gnu.org> <831qficgin.fsf@gnu.org> <87ttsehwab.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87fs3x6ge7.fsf@gmail.com> <87v8cthmzl.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87a5u56atj.fsf@gmail.com> <87r0nhhgb5.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87y1hp3pjm.fsf@gmail.com> <9b605d5a-3186-4764-b43d-854a68d04d0e@app.fastmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="26370"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Dmitry Gutov , Richard Stallman , Emacs Devel To: Bozhidar Batsov , =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= , Danny Freeman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 03 18:29:06 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qcpyD-0006e8-5h for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 18:29:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qcpxJ-0002d1-LP; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 12:28:09 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qcpxI-0002cs-7P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 12:28:08 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf1-x12f.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::12f]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qcpxF-0006Bi-W9; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 12:28:07 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf1-x12f.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-4fe15bfb1adso1248629e87.0; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 09:28:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1693758483; x=1694363283; darn=gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=lDjmtg9wSJ3MJmyPTJCrrCXr5GSOw4QVbiCnw4e25Po=; b=BsG+kjfHD/hNNKWrd1MHbzjajRoe1cK9qGEV7z+2PBULFvB/QU0TtMjyC7+ABj4dR6 BiD/M20FqTN+x4QNSoDpo13v6G2X54tPHB/aRkbCwtQcI/0HZ3yU7i15Zd4NxOkWGOgn vXpHyiC2uUrExZ4jH8xuAXsZvTRAsOUkFqcRwlN8OFojT8PAd//enpjqrxsYummHff1x Ku6XmtrW+zyw4CYBmWcYdAi6T758i1RrPgxQw5n3mJLJqXczMhxVS5bxs77g6a7jy7Tj 4spaTFZ8CBP87wtbaVZVsNvhr3c0WGGnk1q3U5X5pma3IjR5vTF3n1eqMEorPcqe8HlJ 9nOQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1693758483; x=1694363283; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=lDjmtg9wSJ3MJmyPTJCrrCXr5GSOw4QVbiCnw4e25Po=; b=GzqggJNw+7c7ofBz7wAmLzJ9tJGYp4enIAb1ICnpCqBCoiIosucp9Lb6nohOHNhsva ha8UgFOGIybFFDD3zF+Cs95yAUllK2ikyLjr+CVGYqT4NdQaoFC+VNtdlLyad8AMpQiy rIJP3eTy8VLNx/txsXmUtGj23M2urd1p3huM0qBwkXRo/PgA2XTdPj8iv/Br9XsXAKyO xHFxm7up7MYX74FoiWzZ1q75sPySX1cd9avKqfl0YGIAp7jQUFI4rUxSxKoOyU2jT3Rf EG8fdnUQNVvLKHLRlhw6KElJYepJmtiU2G76kdSUEwIN53SDedznDVLIxB1Ao5kQ+7if WPnQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yzg4mozDRURlJrM9Y/vJaEQWlW5CDvaY3Xbe2w/CiuVfYFlqGHG wdcvaWQJWKA78yAKRavJIiHDvgFJPM9RNiXq+Gs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFBpn10cMY4QqzdvKEkwyIOzRXSyf35IRKcZx5Jj6D4Sq8moEKtmorOfrisGp2iPsF3RT8fVC8qo/IME2+62AY= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:398b:b0:4fa:da4f:636f with SMTP id j11-20020a056512398b00b004fada4f636fmr6510421lfu.32.1693758483315; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 09:28:03 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sun, 3 Sep 2023 09:28:02 -0700 In-Reply-To: <9b605d5a-3186-4764-b43d-854a68d04d0e@app.fastmail.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::12f; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x12f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:310003 Archived-At: "Bozhidar Batsov" writes: > Instead of having a civilized conversation here, I've felt that it's > only "we know better" and to hell with how things used to > happen. Sure, you can do whatever you want, but I think that no one > will be better off if things in the community happen in this forceful > manner. I see that you're frustrated here. I already thanked Danny for his work on clojure-ts-mode, so let me thank you too. Your work on clojure-mode over the years is both valuable and appreciated. Emacs would not be where it is today without its many excellent third-party packages, many of which are firmly *not* under the GNU umbrella. That's a self-evident fact. The official position of the project has been stated several times in this thread, but to re-iterate: - We disagree with not putting Clojure support on GNU ELPA, but we accept that you don't want to do that. - We will not use the same name for a bundled bare-bones `clojure-mode'. It would have to use a different name. The basic technical reason is that Emacs Lisp doesn't have packages/namespaces, as we all know. - We do not want to impose any particular workflow on packages in GNU ELPA, or even those that are bundled together with Emacs. We only ask that they merge occasionally (see Bug#65464 for an example of how that's typically handled), and of course that they follow our basic policies (e.g. regarding non-free software). Personally, I agree that the tone in this thread could have been better at times. I can only ask everyone to make an extra effort in being kind, especially so when things are getting tense and feelings are running high. It's okay to sometimes remind each other to count to ten, but let's try to find ways to be kind about that too. I hope that is of some use, and I wish you a great rest of your vacation. > In Emacs We Trust! M-x forever!