From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "C-x 5 5" vs "C-x 4 1" inconsistency Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2021 16:32:47 -0700 Message-ID: References: <83zgriwnv2.fsf@gnu.org> <83wnmmwnn3.fsf@gnu.org> <8735p9jo51.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83bl3xrwl0.fsf@gnu.org> <871r4sby3h.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83r1csrbxn.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="11152"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , Juri Linkov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 11 01:34:11 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mZiKZ-0002f6-N6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 11 Oct 2021 01:34:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60764 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mZiKY-0007AA-63 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 10 Oct 2021 19:34:10 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39666) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mZiJH-0006TC-H1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Oct 2021 19:32:51 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pg1-x52b.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::52b]:39759) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mZiJF-0000Lu-R1; Sun, 10 Oct 2021 19:32:51 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pg1-x52b.google.com with SMTP id g184so9091724pgc.6; Sun, 10 Oct 2021 16:32:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=L9ye3KcQyr7Qk0qVakSE8PlovOE+kG9l8yGYgGctuSI=; b=IEHlwL4/HENL5oy49/YpklFFWlYrzOs9PKuw5eI9PpqzwRqFCJYUDEucKoH3frE9rj ECPktI1Fk6zYcrU/l86aKp6AcXVaBmlYE0wWdolNM+6IdGOJHmjNDj9CFLEfT27kHP5/ UHXqfoORjAAxKT20hJ6Dq7Tn7o850frGQxxAGeKkeK9Q8Bm0piwgKswyoT2JKBfjh4/j uMUvDBbyWaUE0zS15V7+hbJlIYXSfwmHnkJbiqEIO+yAuqyPkznQqK+vtfOx5pXIwYLA Qalpm9agpsuq0Sph1vUvv2ukPQPXdR+Pr3OEtzrH8qE1Yod+M7Wei3ZQM81DfdYLrOHE lFgg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=L9ye3KcQyr7Qk0qVakSE8PlovOE+kG9l8yGYgGctuSI=; b=RCGLVUDn8ZeORS+r7hFoUl3N+yA/sbvJcVclSJjd93DtdMvBB6malPaW1lntEyWiZT MO06jXQnnXFaAUKQ5WmOw1TCd0UWrcj7IbowEHsb8Bfi3DOxdv2rb3OZNRY4xX3Ji3Gb KE3yALkrvu5EQfZdir7cQs68qR71VuQFkHrPHdsJmaMIrK7oPmYVjHHfdqfsqJ9HQJSI SkfZ5CseVeZy7XmIY+cyMGQ9oFTsDgplLt5rdXPJlYJB0lFCkGB4LrBGYAE2H41d7bg/ fgym6vnrqtoeA3jEeMhsbcXtaDJJT30pCgh2HSFbiTJHVYEpGO8sroAsv1LLttYg8fgL Kgtg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5308LkoyzE1Vvm6dCxIsCckH8mDIvyQNq2URlO3Sh5xehzezUdp7 wJnt7MjtKEN0VXXuQgfTVTzMy/ZkQZy/e4FlpblQtQMs X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxJHGv553rMNV3jDqd+vmRvoTzjxv5CEYy/tokYGTAHoFPgRREA3IgnyHXNbvxLt4w7WS1qtqNutsDg9HpSJ6M= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:1586:b0:447:b30c:4a65 with SMTP id u6-20020a056a00158600b00447b30c4a65mr22415260pfk.0.1633908767817; Sun, 10 Oct 2021 16:32:47 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sun, 10 Oct 2021 16:32:47 -0700 In-Reply-To: <83r1csrbxn.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::52b; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-pg1-x52b.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:276713 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> The prefix 'C-x 5' is for frames, so 'C-x 5 5' creates a new frame. >> The prefix 'C-x 4' is for windows, so 'C-x 4 4' creates a new window. >> Also like 'C-x 1' keeps the selected window, 'C-x 4 1' shows the next >> buffer in the same window while keeping it selected. > > And what do you say about the other examples I gave above? > > It was always the rule with these commands that similar operations > have the same "final" keys. Now you've broken this. I think this is > not a good situation. It will definitely get in the way of my > remembering which one is which. I don't see that we need to be consistent in the sense you propose. We could instead be consistent in the sense we are now. It feels quite natural to say `C-x 5 5', because here the final "5" refers to another frame. Whereas in `C-x 4 4', the final "4" refers to another window. Highly logical and consistent to me. `C-x 4 4' is also more ergonomic. I appreciate that, since I tend to use this command quite a bit.