From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] master 4449301: * etc/NEWS: Improve documentation of 'package-initialize'. Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2019 05:57:58 +0100 Message-ID: References: <20191022021600.2389.91268@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <20191022021602.B41B3209DE@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="000000000000d67f06059655ed69" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="33272"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: Emacs developers To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 02 05:58:47 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iQlUs-0008Wn-5R for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 05:58:46 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45188 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iQlUq-0005Oc-Al for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 00:58:44 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52282) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iQlUP-0005OT-M7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 00:58:19 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iQlUK-0004SV-5A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 00:58:16 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pf1-x430.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::430]:35338) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iQlUJ-0004Ln-Oo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 00:58:12 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pf1-x430.google.com with SMTP id d13so8384777pfq.2 for ; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 21:58:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=xudK5p6BedKXnJ6vCWH1jumFr5kVTH31ha/kE4Upj/s=; b=sUHZDS3HDSGwr37NQXLbeMwW4Ua/+tYxeeV50OVof8MLZX45bN5D5u2dmmOPg+dJZW 5iCgeU1jjwEiTdj1J/2PoK+GDO4RQxGpZ5uiXRGMPt41D4qF5zRd5B9DwwAQSHdXCX8I VZ7yEc/Y2vgo6/VZ8fWFH8gdvJEjTHEhcpGP3vIxVuAbsMrUoGvsl995wxTWqC4w+RJf TPHod5bSwENrZvmCvpBEKGlHCldETSAD0R7gS6z0MwaOtQrHXUDmJ6tq/6O1mYhvliVU oeewcitXCeU14jXriwljkQnJhaOh8KwA/VnQ1GdT4EnoZFB8RBJdvwixjQvnVZvBooWF Oq5A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=xudK5p6BedKXnJ6vCWH1jumFr5kVTH31ha/kE4Upj/s=; b=DdzlEcK/0YrhD5oEelzzWW6VdQH5/Rjt3b4hEdKxrcsb6rgTFOXwVh2HVZWoRijuOh qdwqSOs2XrLxKX8gkBjkTRr+yhdyU2Ydqu6FPb09qA62gzydfMA5fdKKRgIJSjdKx042 PTrMZoPhGPx8fVPHY+BJk2PjTUJwlatuBA8vjb+gKiKrjIDoMYSPhHhzSdugpuP0wsvV aSVn9sNnze2gOJs3+rl3S2r1Q25ICZdLi6fdkcwoXxWcVb2/zi9sK60XXICjMP+jGbJn PAQmBXdhgfLd9YhWuKjw2ncX1LU2xBVqC9xi8knKY5FeJTH9fn5Gy+9Hy6tWYvVUXgGi CxWQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVgPa3+E1D5qt3tE1KqayfWtsSpyr/Ckt+I/owNTwSYD184LV7J nAvwncVrCJt2UHhY1NM1tcXjtEKOzrR/87JvbTUXVg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwiGrA74Sf6H5PE9aidH40R6s6M7BBfsALMT6WtBgh+XkSuiNLMEoBF/S7LGvQ+cEK6xDQCa2syo7wlENNVCko= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:1424:: with SMTP id j33mr20929771pja.2.1572670690187; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 21:58:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::430 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:241718 Archived-At: --000000000000d67f06059655ed69 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stefan Monnier writes: > > > It is a defcustom (a user option), but: > > 1. It's ineffective when set from the custom interface, since it has > > to be in the early init file. Right? > > I guess it can still be effective if you load your custom-file from > early-init.el, but indeed it's rather unlikely to be effective in > Emacs=E2=89=A527. My guess would be that this will continue to be an unusual setup. > > 2. It is a user option, but gets set automatically by > > package-initialize. This makes it a bit confusing, because > > describe-variable says: > > Indeed, and this problem already existed before. > > > Would this be better as a defvar instead? > > I think you're right. I started looking into package-enabe-at-startup, and of course the above reasoning goes for package-load-list and package-user-dir; that is, setting them via customize has no effect. I see two alternatives: 1. Make sure that you can set all three via customize. 2. Make all three into defvars. I'm not sure if option 1 is either practical or clean, so I'd lean towards option 2, I think. I'd be interested to hear what other people think about it. Meanwhile, the attached patch makes us not change the value of package-enable-at-startup by introducing a new variable. Any comments? Best regards, Stefan Kangas --000000000000d67f06059655ed69 Content-Type: text/x-patch; charset="US-ASCII"; name="package-init.diff" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="package-init.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: X-Attachment-Id: f_k2h3hl9b0 ZGlmZiAtLWdpdCBhL2RvYy9saXNwcmVmL3BhY2thZ2UudGV4aSBiL2RvYy9saXNwcmVmL3BhY2th Z2UudGV4aQppbmRleCAyMzY4NTViZGY4Li5hOGExMzZmMTg3IDEwMDY0NAotLS0gYS9kb2MvbGlz cHJlZi9wYWNrYWdlLnRleGkKKysrIGIvZG9jL2xpc3ByZWYvcGFja2FnZS50ZXhpCkBAIC0xMDks NyArMTA5LDcgQEAgUGFja2FnaW5nIEJhc2ljcwogQGNvZGV7cGFja2FnZS1hY3RpdmF0ZS1hbGx9 IHRvIG1ha2UgaW5zdGFsbGVkIHBhY2thZ2VzIGF2YWlsYWJsZSB0byB0aGUKIGN1cnJlbnQgc2Vz c2lvbi4gIFRoaXMgaXMgZG9uZSBhZnRlciBsb2FkaW5nIHRoZSBlYXJseSBpbml0IGZpbGUsIGJ1 dAogYmVmb3JlIGxvYWRpbmcgdGhlIHJlZ3VsYXIgaW5pdCBmaWxlIChAcHhyZWZ7U3RhcnR1cCBT dW1tYXJ5fSkuCi1QYWNrYWdlcyBhcmUgbm90IGF1dG9tYXRpY2FsbHkgbWFkZSBhdmFpbGFibGUg aWYgdGhlIHVzZXIgb3B0aW9uCitQYWNrYWdlcyBhcmUgbm90IGF1dG9tYXRpY2FsbHkgbWFkZSBh dmFpbGFibGUgaWYgdGhlIHZhcmlhYmxlCiBAY29kZXtwYWNrYWdlLWVuYWJsZS1hdC1zdGFydHVw fSBpcyBzZXQgdG8gQGNvZGV7bmlsfSBpbiB0aGUgZWFybHkKIGluaXQgZmlsZS4KIApkaWZmIC0t Z2l0IGEvZXRjL05FV1MgYi9ldGMvTkVXUwppbmRleCAwMzNjYjQ4OTc4Li5mYTY4MWYzZjQ3IDEw MDY0NAotLS0gYS9ldGMvTkVXUworKysgYi9ldGMvTkVXUwpAQCAtMTkxLDYgKzE5MSw5IEBAIGl0 IHdvbid0IHdvcmsgcmlnaHQgd2l0aG91dCBzb21lIGFkanVzdG1lbnQ6CiAgIGRvZXMgbm90IG5l ZWQgdG8gcGF5IGF0dGVudGlvbiB0byAncGFja2FnZS1sb2FkLWxpc3QnIG9yCiAgICdwYWNrYWdl LXVzZXItZGlyJyBhbnkgbW9yZS4KIAorVGhlIHZhbHVlIG9mICdwYWNrYWdlLWVuYWJsZS1hdC1z dGFydHVwJyBjYW4gbm8gbG9uZ2VyIGJlIGNoYW5nZWQKK3VzaW5nIGN1c3RvbWl6ZS4KKwogLS0t CiAqKiBFbWFjcyBub3cgbm90aWZpZXMgc3lzdGVtZCB3aGVuIHN0YXJ0dXAgZmluaXNoZXMgb3Ig c2h1dGRvd24gYmVnaW5zLgogVW5pdHMgdGhhdCBhcmUgb3JkZXJlZCBhZnRlciAnZW1hY3Muc2Vy dmljZScgd2lsbCBvbmx5IGJlIHN0YXJ0ZWQKZGlmZiAtLWdpdCBhL2xpc3AvZW1hY3MtbGlzcC9w YWNrYWdlLmVsIGIvbGlzcC9lbWFjcy1saXNwL3BhY2thZ2UuZWwKaW5kZXggNTM5YjIzNmI2My4u Mjg4NWIyYzE5NCAxMDA2NDQKLS0tIGEvbGlzcC9lbWFjcy1saXNwL3BhY2thZ2UuZWwKKysrIGIv bGlzcC9lbWFjcy1saXNwL3BhY2thZ2UuZWwKQEAgLTE2MiwyMCArMTYyLDIzIEBAIHBhY2thZ2UK IDs7OyBDdXN0b21pemF0aW9uIG9wdGlvbnMKIAogOzs7IyMjYXV0b2xvYWQKLShkZWZjdXN0b20g cGFja2FnZS1lbmFibGUtYXQtc3RhcnR1cCB0CisoZGVmdmFyIHBhY2thZ2UtZW5hYmxlLWF0LXN0 YXJ0dXAgdAogICAiV2hldGhlciB0byBtYWtlIGluc3RhbGxlZCBwYWNrYWdlcyBhdmFpbGFibGUg d2hlbiBFbWFjcyBzdGFydHMuCiBJZiBub24tbmlsLCBwYWNrYWdlcyBhcmUgbWFkZSBhdmFpbGFi bGUgYmVmb3JlIHJlYWRpbmcgdGhlIGluaXQKIGZpbGUgKGJ1dCBhZnRlciByZWFkaW5nIHRoZSBl YXJseSBpbml0IGZpbGUpLiAgVGhpcyBtZWFucyB0aGF0IGlmCi15b3Ugd2lzaCB0byBzZXQgdGhp cyB2YXJpYWJsZSwgeW91IG11c3QgZG8gc28gaW4gdGhlIGVhcmx5IGluaXQKLWZpbGUuICBSZWdh cmRsZXNzIG9mIHRoZSB2YWx1ZSBvZiB0aGlzIHZhcmlhYmxlLCBwYWNrYWdlcyBhcmUgbm90Ci1t YWRlIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBpZiBgdXNlci1pbml0LWZpbGUnIGlzIG5pbCAoZS5nLiBFbWFjcyB3YXMg c3RhcnRlZAotd2l0aCBcIi1xXCIpLgoreW91IHdpc2ggdG8gc2V0IHRoaXMgdmFyaWFibGUgdG8g bmlsLCB5b3UgbXVzdCBkbyB0aGF0IGluIHRoZQorZWFybHkgaW5pdCBmaWxlLiAgU2VlIEluZm8g bm9kZSBgKGVtYWNzKSBFYXJseSBJbml0IEZpbGUnLgorCitOb3RlIHRoYXQgdGhlIHBhY2thZ2Ug c3lzdGVtIHdpbGwgYXV0b21hdGljYWxseSBzZXQgdGhpcyB2YXJpYWJsZQordG8gbmlsIHdoZW4g dGhlIHBhY2thZ2Ugc3lzdGVtIGlzIGluaXRpYWxpemVkLgorCitSZWdhcmRsZXNzIG9mIHRoZSB2 YWx1ZSBvZiB0aGlzIHZhcmlhYmxlLCBwYWNrYWdlcyBhcmUgbm90IG1hZGUKK2F2YWlsYWJsZSBp ZiBgdXNlci1pbml0LWZpbGUnIGlzIG5pbCAoZS5nLiBFbWFjcyB3YXMgc3RhcnRlZCB3aXRoCitc Ii1xXCIpLgogCiBFdmVuIGlmIHRoZSB2YWx1ZSBpcyBuaWwsIHlvdSBjYW4gdHlwZSBcXFtwYWNr YWdlLWluaXRpYWxpemVdIHRvCiBtYWtlIGluc3RhbGxlZCBwYWNrYWdlcyBhdmFpbGFibGUgYXQg YW55IHRpbWUsIG9yIHlvdSBjYW4KLWNhbGwgKHBhY2thZ2UtaW5pdGlhbGl6ZSkgaW4geW91ciBp bml0LWZpbGUuIgotICA6dHlwZSAnYm9vbGVhbgotICA6dmVyc2lvbiAiMjQuMSIpCitjYWxsIChw YWNrYWdlLWluaXRpYWxpemUpIGluIHlvdXIgaW5pdC1maWxlLiIpCiAKIChkZWZjdXN0b20gcGFj a2FnZS1sb2FkLWxpc3QgJyhhbGwpCiAgICJMaXN0IG9mIHBhY2thZ2VzIGZvciBgcGFja2FnZS1p bml0aWFsaXplJyB0byBtYWtlIGF2YWlsYWJsZS4K --000000000000d67f06059655ed69--