From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2024 18:29:03 -0700 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="32817"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Daniel Colascione , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 01 03:29:53 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sO5rd-0008PJ-6g for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 01 Jul 2024 03:29:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sO5qv-0001pQ-Ck; Sun, 30 Jun 2024 21:29:09 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sO5qu-0001pG-6N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Jun 2024 21:29:08 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ed1-x531.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::531]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sO5qs-00081Q-LF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Jun 2024 21:29:07 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ed1-x531.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-57d20d89748so2621446a12.0 for ; Sun, 30 Jun 2024 18:29:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1719797344; x=1720402144; darn=gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=zxIaka/rIhM5cTnUgXbKVk8qWUjfajl0wvK9K3rTUeQ=; b=MraiYUJzz81aNO3f95VxQTzaZXmAB+eqwqu1y9AuPl+4m5f1imYPkMVsz07l7gP2hq LZWGXM3s+V9OdmXl5wQ1n10Qf7JqppBzpKIGcZvbsVkipXDt3r3OJP2fEzTB+vkLdRBw CBz7lMYj8mUbhgg2whCvh+xQXyKuugo3wLRkUpO1AiBTbYy2DPFb21H6bEs/j0ydRbzo JN4+SLF2cl4U9uL1pI1MZxmFyyDAuF3wKBA7S9A9W3gvz7a9jYdfctw6edV4RrXDb2Jo bTalH/ZEiRxyKidRoEyI7Sc2r/T9pjtai109h1ydr9THgq5dOg2bc5UfCu82v4do+Ymv dBYQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1719797344; x=1720402144; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=zxIaka/rIhM5cTnUgXbKVk8qWUjfajl0wvK9K3rTUeQ=; b=rFGqcxP2YTWNfDlKTpRa+Aj6URmF4CSe5hFPtSQ+aoTOFhJUjl/xAFlZhXIWDtajgz IAB0Njqayw7p7ghSxZH5+pjB1y83uKi9BNMjhkqmtoyLnRkXxgQN6bD1QcmxOMRfnLbU yx7KiMqlNUgSm7IYdpN1sYFQKs7Zef86JK9qSNkiyyHhivAQEbzbPYLZVIAmSboTlUw5 gYOtC0SCgNDifOTZ7uEpY1xN6IYrrxQV35C+R3GQCieOMsNUI1+6FxGpYrvredBzgqO2 6SEH5T11Sp5/bBge1KtAxDBUgjto9P8yD7y2QDNhOyc+e3Rd9uc579xmE6JDbxTnda1L E8sw== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWsykQHOCuyOCkVuED+8AssubniV//z+qlEglV8IDkxA78y9VhpWJ65rTW0dH34QljkY5ONTGCBgz99KnCOxNQf6f88 X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yz2zxif3n8mb2RWARaXkykBUFz9E1+npNlaO6satX1HiIXjz13P CQvt1P7+idCqRGwu5bzIuoS34Y/V+UMOdPukm2qbJts5fY9XOTU6WFsZbOWdMDVHn0zn2Rr+sDC WR6msfRJH8y+17R92XK2VVqYJEtMwsIfcfSs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEhStwfSOUkJNDXlx99oLEVlIFe0tOl/NJGvi6I+nZcjypjpbCLXvLCjzSaB4fTIdmm7/wnRrnXRCpGcbtGLsM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:270a:b0:57c:68fd:2bc9 with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5879efd08bemr2912078a12.3.1719797343990; Sun, 30 Jun 2024 18:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sun, 30 Jun 2024 18:29:03 -0700 In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::531; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-x531.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:320987 Archived-At: Generally speaking, we provide an extensive set of keybindings. These defaults ensure that Emacs is as usable as possible out-of-the-box. There is of course room for reasonable people to agree or disagree to what extent this or that keybinding is useful enough to provide out-of-the-box; this is largely a matter of taste and how you use Emacs. However, I'm not convinced by the argument that there is some "keybinding real estate" that we are somehow occupying by adding _any_ new defaults, since users can change keybindings relatively easily. So there is no way around the need to consider each new proposal individually. Now, it is clear that there is a need for users to navigate between windows. The need for even more specialized commands (e.g. windmove, ace-window) is arguably bigger today than it used to be. Users will routinely have huge monitors where they can have a large number of windows visible at the same time. What served users in 1995 will not necessarily be enough for the needs of users today. In my view, having considered this discussion in full, the benefits of adding these key bindings, favored by several developers, therefore outweigh the perceived drawbacks. - The proposal is to add global bindings, which AFAIU means that they will not affect people that are binding these keys to something else (whether globally or in specific modes). - People that do not like these keys do not need to use them, or they can unbind them, or rebind them to something else. - The relevant windmove commands are already autoloaded. - There is no need to deprecate anything to add these bindings. Thus, I don't think I see any compelling reason not to go ahead with this change. I would propose that we now start discussing the specifics of how to go about doing that (patches, proposed alternative solutions).