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From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
Cc: Daniel Colascione <dancol@dancol.org>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2024 18:29:03 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CADwFkmn6rmUPXbmdTxXmUPJ9q9fo8v3WQ8GBHHw_eK_2WfHxUQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <jwvmsn7zozi.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>

Generally speaking, we provide an extensive set of keybindings.  These
defaults ensure that Emacs is as usable as possible out-of-the-box.

There is of course room for reasonable people to agree or disagree to
what extent this or that keybinding is useful enough to provide
out-of-the-box; this is largely a matter of taste and how you use Emacs.

However, I'm not convinced by the argument that there is some
"keybinding real estate" that we are somehow occupying by adding _any_
new defaults, since users can change keybindings relatively easily.
So there is no way around the need to consider each new proposal
individually.

Now, it is clear that there is a need for users to navigate between
windows.  The need for even more specialized commands (e.g. windmove,
ace-window) is arguably bigger today than it used to be.  Users will
routinely have huge monitors where they can have a large number of
windows visible at the same time.  What served users in 1995 will not
necessarily be enough for the needs of users today.

In my view, having considered this discussion in full, the benefits of
adding these key bindings, favored by several developers, therefore
outweigh the perceived drawbacks.

- The proposal is to add global bindings, which AFAIU means that they
  will not affect people that are binding these keys to something else
  (whether globally or in specific modes).

- People that do not like these keys do not need to use them, or they
  can unbind them, or rebind them to something else.

- The relevant windmove commands are already autoloaded.

- There is no need to deprecate anything to add these bindings.

Thus, I don't think I see any compelling reason not to go ahead with
this change.  I would propose that we now start discussing the specifics
of how to go about doing that (patches, proposed alternative solutions).



  parent reply	other threads:[~2024-07-01  1:29 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 249+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-08-21 19:10 Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove Daniel Colascione
2021-08-21 19:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-21 19:27   ` Daniel Colascione
2021-08-21 19:36     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-22  8:35       ` Juri Linkov
2021-08-21 19:42   ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2021-08-25 13:12     ` Kaushal Modi
2021-08-21 20:20   ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-22  6:02     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-22  8:32       ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-22 13:43         ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-08-22  0:43   ` Phil Sainty
2021-08-22  5:13   ` Teemu Likonen
2021-08-22  9:22     ` Teemu Likonen
2021-08-21 19:26 ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-22  8:37 ` Juri Linkov
2021-08-22 14:05   ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-22 19:16   ` Daniel Colascione
2021-08-22 17:52 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-08-22 22:01   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-08-23  5:16     ` Bozhidar Batsov
2021-08-24 21:33       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-08-25  3:42       ` Richard Stallman
2024-06-21 19:03   ` Stefan Monnier
2024-06-21 20:39     ` Stefan Kangas
2024-06-23 10:05       ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-23 11:14         ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 12:05           ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-23 12:30             ` Stefan Kangas
2024-06-23 13:29               ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-23 13:34                 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 13:45                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-23 20:55                   ` chad
2024-06-23 16:32               ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-23 12:57             ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 13:40               ` Po Lu
2024-06-23 13:45                 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 14:15                   ` Po Lu
2024-06-23 14:22                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-24  7:41                       ` Gregor Zattler
2024-06-24 12:13                         ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-24 12:41                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-24 15:09                           ` Gregor Zattler
2024-06-24 15:36                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-25  1:41                               ` Joel Reicher
2024-06-24 15:57                       ` Petteri Hintsanen
2024-06-25 21:26                       ` Jeremy Bryant
2024-06-26 11:23                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-26 11:44                           ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-26 13:19                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-26 13:57                               ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-26 15:38                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-26 15:49                                   ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-28 19:47                                 ` Hovav Shacham
2024-06-28 20:45                                   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-29  7:02                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-01  1:58                                   ` Stefan Kangas
2024-06-26 13:22                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-26 13:51                               ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-26 14:13                                 ` Po Lu
2024-06-26 14:21                                   ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-26 15:15                                     ` Po Lu
2024-06-26 15:27                                       ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-26 15:42                                       ` Colin Baxter
2024-06-26 16:00                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-26 14:41                                   ` Joel Reicher
2024-06-26 15:43                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-26 14:49                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-26 17:02                                 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-26 14:27                               ` Stefan Monnier
2024-06-26 15:14                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-26 13:53                             ` Po Lu
2024-06-26 14:18                               ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-26 14:48                                 ` Po Lu
2024-06-26 14:27                               ` Stefan Monnier
2024-06-26 14:51                                 ` Po Lu
2024-06-26 15:01                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-27 15:35                                 ` Augusto Stoffel
2024-06-26 17:02                               ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-07-02  6:28                       ` Visuwesh
2024-06-23 14:28                     ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 14:37                       ` Po Lu
2024-06-23 14:45                         ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-24 10:35                       ` Joel Reicher
2024-06-23 16:32                   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-23 13:48                 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 14:14                   ` Telemetry, opt-in,opt-out [was: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove] tomas
2024-06-23 14:18                     ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 15:23                       ` Stefan Kangas
2024-06-23 15:34                         ` tomas
2024-06-23 19:46                     ` Stefan Monnier
2024-06-23 21:12                       ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-25 14:28                         ` [External] : Re: Telemetry, opt-in, opt-out " Madhu
2024-06-25 17:19                           ` Drew Adams
2024-06-25 23:03                           ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide via Emacs development discussions.
2024-06-28  4:02                           ` Richard Stallman
2024-06-28  5:28                       ` Telemetry, opt-in,opt-out " Ihor Radchenko
2024-06-28  6:33                         ` tomas
2024-06-23 14:25                   ` Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove Po Lu
2024-06-23 14:38                     ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 15:24                 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-06-23 15:36                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-23 16:32                 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-23 19:10                 ` Gregor Zattler
2024-06-23 13:59               ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-23 14:06                 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 16:32               ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-23 18:44         ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-23 18:51           ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 19:26             ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-23 19:34               ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-23 19:55                 ` Stefan Monnier
2024-06-23 21:12                 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-23 20:07               ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-06-23 21:12                 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-23 21:09               ` Drew Adams
2024-06-23 19:52           ` Stefan Monnier
2024-06-23 20:07             ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-06-23 20:23             ` Stefan Kangas
2024-06-23 21:12             ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-24  2:28             ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-24 10:41               ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-06-24 11:45                 ` Po Lu
2024-06-25  2:26                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-24  3:29       ` Philip Kaludercic
2024-06-24  4:23         ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-24  7:18           ` Philip Kaludercic
2024-06-24 14:46             ` Drew Adams
2024-06-24  6:32         ` Juri Linkov
2024-06-26 15:48       ` Stefan Monnier
2024-06-26 20:38         ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-27  5:16           ` Attitude (was: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove) Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-27 12:19             ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-07-01  1:29         ` Stefan Kangas [this message]
2024-07-01 10:07           ` Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove Alan Mackenzie
2024-07-01 10:47             ` Po Lu
2024-07-01 11:12               ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-01 13:20                 ` Po Lu
2024-07-01 18:21                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-02  0:52                     ` Po Lu
2024-07-01 11:25             ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-01 13:28               ` Po Lu
2024-07-01 13:34                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-01 19:05                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-01 21:24               ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-07-01 22:07                 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-02  1:00                   ` Po Lu
2024-07-02  3:26                     ` C-o (was: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove) Stefan Monnier
2024-07-02  4:34                       ` C-o Po Lu
2024-07-02  5:59                       ` C-o Gerd Möllmann
2024-07-02  6:23                       ` C-o Visuwesh
2024-07-02 12:51                       ` C-o Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-02 13:06                         ` C-o Po Lu
2024-07-02 13:39                           ` C-o Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 14:02                             ` C-o Alfred M. Szmidt
2024-07-03  9:24                             ` C-o Po Lu
2024-07-03 11:33                               ` C-o Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-03 12:15                                 ` C-o Po Lu
2024-07-02 14:02                       ` C-o T.V Raman
2024-07-02 15:36                         ` C-o Alfred M. Szmidt
2024-07-02 22:27                       ` C-o Michael Heerdegen via Emacs development discussions.
2024-07-02 22:31                       ` C-o (was: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove) Stefan Kangas
2024-07-02 22:44                       ` C-o Jeremy Bryant
2024-07-03 10:07                       ` C-o (was: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove) Per Starbäck
2024-07-03 12:48                         ` C-o Howard Melman
2024-07-03 16:24                           ` C-o Yuri Khan
2024-07-03 16:32                             ` C-o Howard Melman
2024-07-05  4:14                               ` C-o Richard Stallman
2024-07-05  4:28                                 ` C-o Howard Melman
2024-07-03 19:13                           ` C-o Bob Rogers
2024-07-02  7:28                   ` Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove Philip Kaludercic
2024-07-02 11:41                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02  1:01                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-02  1:51                   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-07-02  2:20                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-02  3:47                       ` Drew Adams
2024-07-02 22:41                   ` Stefan Kangas
2024-07-02  1:47                 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
     [not found]                 ` <87h6d87op5.fsf@dancol.org>
2024-07-02 13:08                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-07-01 14:43             ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-07-01 18:12               ` [External] : Re: Proposal: new default bindings for windmove. [Working minor mode] Alan Mackenzie
2024-07-01 18:18                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-04  2:26             ` Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove Richard Stallman
2024-07-01 23:18           ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-02  1:02             ` Po Lu via Emacs development discussions.
2024-07-02  2:03               ` Howard Melman
2024-07-02 12:21                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02  3:29               ` Stefan Monnier
2024-07-02  4:14                 ` Po Lu
2024-07-02 13:04                   ` Stefan Monnier
2024-07-02 13:36                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 14:20                       ` Stefan Monnier
2024-07-02 14:43                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 12:18               ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 12:52                 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-02 13:34                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 13:53                     ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-02 14:15                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 14:41                         ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-02 15:00                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 22:28                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-03  3:14                   ` Hovav Shacham
2024-07-02  6:50             ` Juri Linkov
2024-07-02  8:07               ` Yuri Khan
2024-07-02 16:27                 ` Juri Linkov
2024-07-02 11:50               ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-02 16:32                 ` Juri Linkov
2024-07-02 16:47                   ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-02 12:46               ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 13:31               ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2024-07-02 18:03               ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-02 18:07                 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2024-07-02 18:29                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 18:30                 ` Yuri Khan
2024-07-02 20:00                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-02 21:15                     ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-07-02 22:30                       ` Drew Adams
2024-07-03 11:56                     ` Yuri Khan
2024-07-03 13:53                       ` Stefan Monnier
2024-07-03 14:14                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-03 16:15                         ` Yuri Khan
2024-07-03 16:26                           ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-03 22:12                             ` John ff
2024-07-02 18:34                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-07-02 19:08                   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-07-02 19:53                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-02 20:12                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-07-02 21:13                       ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-03  6:21                         ` Juri Linkov
2024-07-02 21:54                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-02 18:37                 ` Juri Linkov
2024-07-02 20:03                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-03  6:24                     ` Juri Linkov
2024-07-03 13:48                       ` Stefan Monnier
2024-07-03  6:56                 ` Visuwesh
2024-07-02  7:08             ` Philip Kaludercic
2024-07-02 11:46               ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-02 13:31                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-07-02 13:52                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-02 13:55                   ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-02 14:42                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-07-02 15:36                     ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2024-07-02 11:57             ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 23:20             ` Stefan Kangas
2024-07-03  1:19             ` Liu Hui
2024-06-23  6:59     ` Juri Linkov
2021-08-22 18:58 ` Dmitry Gutov
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2021-08-22  7:37 Boruch Baum
2024-07-02 16:36 Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez

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