From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Include leaf in Emacs distribution Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2020 10:22:56 -0700 Message-ID: References: <20201008.103747.1339582189858984269.conao3@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="14380"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: John Wiegley To: Naoya Yamashita , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 11 19:23:44 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kRf4R-0003d0-VP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 11 Oct 2020 19:23:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54026 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kRf4R-0002eQ-2J for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 11 Oct 2020 13:23:43 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55856) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kRf3l-0002Ch-DY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Oct 2020 13:23:01 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ed1-x52a.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::52a]:45725) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kRf3j-0000r4-K3; Sun, 11 Oct 2020 13:23:01 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ed1-x52a.google.com with SMTP id dg9so12154953edb.12; Sun, 11 Oct 2020 10:22:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=FkNQjRmfbuMSt3hf6th+QyV13P/cELuqGpX7cBUGyjI=; b=ksSda8DpTDfLa9Dy4tXKZ4NP7pWN9ovgPmeErAnL1/vJyC0tElGASllJkc63FUvqri sF9hmKccQyJZvthrfiPGenm+WvYikGCUbODlC09ERLNXEGs5v2aEPM8It0IrCSGHPJff aaWHI2nYDSmaipG1i8wNKebb37oDFlr+WBJ1dfBcdMpt9vmCFIr1Wz4+dtoeZysfhy7L hQePEDOaa6kn17O+Fq50MXmfLKUUVzvjIXVnwCv8ul4qlOAuKMXMKm8TdmG+kinkTsk4 dlvdYp3+uKhmlGl/5r3fQnjLjRCvEIKD+o9zDbiuAGIEkGGq12gus3McAtBv0oCpl9MV ZgSw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=FkNQjRmfbuMSt3hf6th+QyV13P/cELuqGpX7cBUGyjI=; b=oscIsv8PLWkZaEZVwo/SZ2dh7yULvvBDp4r6bwLdJCKbI9Onk02vOIzT+wmyYd0ebH ccGLQJtmfPUIM5pROKndhKlNajl/+N5CHzoFDX7eKEafRrJGYtUD5aTn3v1EAXkY0i5K gFF3Bun1hC38fNPWgAivG9Dig5ijfc6aZ/jV+NYI/7RlYmKVU7dw2lcQvWFR1bPMMJjD Op+iiU8O/+OziZo7RgLSRyx3MIBKY1B4LnUBHReUuUKVRNLzaNwb4K/DP/50SJqqaWiA +GCcpFyIfRFUrb9y99lEDn+pEZ7TX7bmYR1qe77F7EPaKDrjvtbbOo3PfojwgDioMry1 xgZw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532WdFsolvYnZGI5ymAUy7/Cjnkh7HkrtvACZme2WZlExtr/tvBX bJw7dO4SHiwtjk1N7fNBA8opaz1iihFo0ElHZT+HJr4v X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw0KrQR63j9TqUb60p0yBODQtj79gmk1b1NOTeLQr/lLx21oshQAx8zHwjuU5H+Bsfq9DPvkVr4vZYjWRjxkbA= X-Received: by 2002:a50:fa42:: with SMTP id c2mr10482297edq.282.1602436977659; Sun, 11 Oct 2020 10:22:57 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sun, 11 Oct 2020 10:22:56 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20201008.103747.1339582189858984269.conao3@gmail.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::52a; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-x52a.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:257379 Archived-At: Naoya Yamashita writes: > I'm author of leaf[1][2] which is one of ELPA package. I propose > to add the package in the default Emacs dictribution. [...] > Now, leaf wraps the idiom for configuring Emacs packages. If > you're using use-package[4], it's not hard to imagine. The offering > is pretty much the same but bit different. > > Why did I create leaf? Because the syntax of the use-package was > a bit confusing and there were copyright issues[5]. Thanks for your work. FWIW, here are my two cents. First, the copyright issues with use-package are being worked on, see: https://github.com/jwiegley/use-package/issues/282 Once that is worked out, we could include both use-package and leaf in Emacs, only one of them, or both. It is good that we have two packages here, since it gives us more options. I have looked at the leaf package before, but I could never figure out why I would want to use it instead of use-package. They are very similar, and the functionality seems to be mostly overlapping. I think that we should perhaps consider why we even have two packages here. Could the functionality of one be absorbed by the other? Are the differences really that important? But maybe I'm just missing something. Personally, I'd rather not see two very similar packages in Emacs unless there are important differences and sufficiently strong reasons. One starting point here is that use-package seems to be more widely used and known. If this is correct, I guess leaf unfortunately has a bit of an uphill battle to show some significant improvement over use-package.