From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com> Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#73812: 30.0.91; ERC 5.6.0.30.1: Customizing erc-modules loads ERC when starting Emacs Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2024 19:05:16 -0700 Message-ID: <CADwFkmmzw0+BQb=dKvndxsXUwjJiszXr3VrRpaU_rE4DndjsvA__13820.1258656167$1730513250$gmane$org@mail.gmail.com> References: <87o73mgjk3.fsf@neverwas.me> <865xptsh6f.fsf@gnu.org> <87h69ddz5l.fsf@neverwas.me> <86bjzhopaz.fsf@gnu.org> <87ttd947pg.fsf@neverwas.me> <87ed3z1tut.fsf@neverwas.me> <87cyjepihk.fsf@neverwas.me> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="24020"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 73812@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, emacs-erc@gnu.org To: "J.P." <jp@neverwas.me>, Andrea Corallo <acorallo@gnu.org> Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 02 03:07:23 2024 Return-path: <bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org> Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org>) id 1t73Xu-000675-Ff for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2024 03:07:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <bug-gnu-emacs-bounces@gnu.org>) id 1t73Xc-0002PJ-7o; Fri, 01 Nov 2024 22:07:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <Debian-debbugs@debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1t73Xa-0002P4-DV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2024 22:07:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <Debian-debbugs@debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1t73Xa-0001cc-5S for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2024 22:07:02 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=debbugs.gnu.org; s=debbugs-gnu-org; h=Date:MIME-Version:References:In-Reply-To:From:To:Subject; bh=j+nvm37j50WLre/Ri3D6EUbFzqtFcBD0sH3hpn86l58=; b=Ar9YgnXPNeuj/0EvofZyqC9yoq1dm+5zmmrTUBvAnT+BB/EH2sJTP+U8EkLfUuhN0YrYRXh0KR/tnLJPC+C/xTnBhoP03FdL9fHCXF8kgxQGiFi/HY8OQVCJpZ81sQswX1WKGHr4wBA2SLu0VMNDtHrGkCm9ppbp6w8iMwcNSL9VSNkMvQY7tl5KYBxtt1rApkMHU52phKPXMwsd0+P88Qn8ef0p0N4LnjbMpQVtOOK624DJaSUT1xyRU8RmDu/F1u59ZioGp7hgDgSdL80EWr2nHFFz/Jmmob8yVJYMJ9fjU/aS/N/seLroQ6EnZSnLoGVkF1AHvwCeJZO9Z7z7fQ==; Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <Debian-debbugs@debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1t73XZ-0007OO-QR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2024 22:07:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2024 02:07:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.73812.B73812.173051318628403@debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 73812 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 73812-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B73812.173051318628403 (code B ref 73812); Sat, 02 Nov 2024 02:07:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 73812) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Nov 2024 02:06:26 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52609 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1t73Wz-0007O3-Io for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2024 22:06:25 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ej1-f42.google.com ([209.85.218.42]:55417) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefankangas@gmail.com>) id 1t73Wx-0007Nv-4R for 73812@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2024 22:06:24 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ej1-f42.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-a9a628b68a7so363995566b.2 for <73812@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 01 Nov 2024 19:06:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1730513117; x=1731117917; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=j+nvm37j50WLre/Ri3D6EUbFzqtFcBD0sH3hpn86l58=; b=PY6zMmd/ZRSKV78zm9LSLOsijB8cv+bP7UZzM4kavkTbVLXQPDCnqjCDnTMyieFNB2 IdNAvuHxMO9lsu67R6wgpHJ7V9oKD7OH38pWXXMiqnAYAW3Klq2nwAFdiku0WG1vEdjf FXPgQ4Zf2wdT/osVG33BD6+IMZj8RdDajq7IDIznsDfw+ZVEpMh+CZTuKhNFsVDUqTUN 1R/Y755aWBG54XHnx2bAQ7+b+Gji1Aqma6IkfOeJ8sANRUqk6V0BxGtAr+1gCLhrKWDL JizoZmv0jPLqdT2Ke+W7AYuOvFgBGHtiEoIBHXxcd1ueDPGF13QDfUzJNbzV3SNwPtIk lIAw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1730513117; x=1731117917; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=j+nvm37j50WLre/Ri3D6EUbFzqtFcBD0sH3hpn86l58=; b=kejQk42xh2SBkpquiGLtWThq4eXxWIbXKPnydVz0mF/Wp6+xnrArMiQG1rz8U6K+R/ O5Rcz8M4qrZlMxb45D9AGFeQnzKtBiV/MwTpab508DHraaEnzutyxUBgaj3eNv54yL/q A4BUzycDfgvvMAuIPZniJyuE1giuyKUsSPz2GKDCt7kl1seOvZWQT6le+kUNugp9RkZC h69/3ZGKQVH4yhiWuBYyqOwOxhVLtsoobMPu5kshZUVz4t616CljpuUWVkKhjUZEN0ck atM7OunGZS+tA3SfwygZpW0v6Rck0hKq8jDcnJDvR8/0NGonAj8B60H+r9vLQcf0zxQQ oIeA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxamHbSfVctrhTjz5OHXdcfdg64hOO0JT3YRqI3UeZNm0XGQzvq 8uuRpBjFAoD/bzFGkE//L9J6IS4S+Qw2Gy2ii1S0e0sNsDAUhtOBZA6qyVa8t1Ee2Eiod76Uqo3 98y96POmFXowUgJ3Ll2rWZpkMeVc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGNQljtA+2qHNRBOO5ghCNN8oRKoTM+Xa1IhbqoaIhIn/v0nR4/KQy0Ym1YL3sg/tGTkovD3nAKqYx3iYir2E0= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:1c02:b0:a99:ef5d:443e with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-a9e6548f7e4mr504477466b.13.1730513116913; Fri, 01 Nov 2024 19:05:16 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Fri, 1 Nov 2024 19:05:16 -0700 In-Reply-To: <87cyjepihk.fsf@neverwas.me> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/options/bug-gnu-emacs>, <mailto:bug-gnu-emacs-request@gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs> List-Post: <mailto:bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:bug-gnu-emacs-request@gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-gnu-emacs>, <mailto:bug-gnu-emacs-request@gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:294708 Archived-At: <http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.bugs/294708> "J.P." <jp@neverwas.me> writes: > - Due to my own stupidity, the version of ERC in Emacs 30 autoloads the > option `erc-modules', which is the most important of ERC's options and > among the first that users typically customize. > > - Because of this change, the very presence of `erc-modules' in one's > `custom-file' now loads all of ERC at startup, including any library > housing a member module, be it built-in or third-party. > > - Users who no longer use ERC but still have a customization entry lying > around will also be affected. Likewise for users who prefer running > multiple Emacs instances to segregate concerns. > > - This issue won't be solvable by installing ERC 5.6.1 from ELPA, where > the problematic line will have been removed, because the autoload is > permanently baked into lisp/ldefs-boot.el. > > - The problematic change will be new in Emacs 30.1. This does not sound ideal, indeed. I can only add that some of our users are very concerned with Emacs's startup time, and spend a lot of time optimizing it. Unexpectedly pulling in all of ERC in some cases certainly won't help them. > "J.P." <jp@neverwas.me> writes: > >> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: >> >>>> All in all, I'd prefer to leave this alone in Emacs 30. We have time >>>> to try reverting this on master and seeing whether it's a net win or a >>>> net loss, given the past history of the issue. (AFAIU, if you remove >>>> this line, some change is pertinent in the manual?) >> >> It's been reverted on master for ten days now with no complaints: >> >> https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/commit/?id=1854f275 >> >> If that's long enough to qualify as a net win, can we proceed with a >> backport? > > It's been two weeks now since I was tasked with reverting this on master > in order to assess the damage, of which none has since been reported. > > Apologies if I'm out of line in pressing the issue, but I'm driven by a > need to advocate for ERC's users, who've suffered greatly in the past > due to my cowardliness in similar situations [1]. As such, I would very > much appreciate a final verdict on this matter. I assume that we are talking about cherry-picking commit 1854f2751e3f to the emacs-30 branch. Can removing the autoload cookie cause an issue outside of ERC, or for non-users of ERC? If it cannot, I don't know that I'm in a better position than you, being the ERC maintainer, to determine what kind of negative impact removing it might have. If anything, it sounds like it is more risky for non-users of ERC to leave things as is? In summary, my view is that removing it should be low risk, and it fixes a known bug. It's arguably minor, but does affect startup performance. So I think it sounds good to have the patch on emacs-30. Let's see if Eli or Andrea has anything to add here first, though.