From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: GNU Emacs raison d'etre Date: Sat, 16 May 2020 16:05:49 -0400 Message-ID: References: <5230692c-c665-a330-7a12-e59fa25d97dd@gmail.com> <70bb51fd-447d-928c-4d69-1c9673a44471@online.de> <871rnnvmdx.fsf@red-bean.com> <87pnb7sira.fsf@red-bean.com> <83zha8tluq.fsf@gnu.org> <87v9kwi6ta.fsf@osv.gnss.ru> <83wo5ccgg4.fsf@gnu.org> <87lflshxtq.fsf@osv.gnss.ru> <83mu68cbbb.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7wghxdz.fsf@osv.gnss.ru> <87eerkgey1.fsf@osv.gnss.ru> <112aecd7-8165-6cae-ef69-08d14d843841@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="15678"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rms@gnu.org, andreas.roehler@online.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org, kfogel@red-bean.com, homeros.misasa@gmail.com, tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp, Eli Zaretskii To: Dmitry Gutov , Sergey Organov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat May 16 22:06:38 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ja34w-00040o-9T for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 16 May 2020 22:06:38 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44618 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ja34v-0002l7-1Z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 16 May 2020 16:06:37 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36058) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ja34C-0002K3-Vo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 16 May 2020 16:05:53 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yb1-xb35.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::b35]:36359) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ja34C-0001k6-5T; Sat, 16 May 2020 16:05:52 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-yb1-xb35.google.com with SMTP id a10so3065809ybc.3; Sat, 16 May 2020 13:05:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=imrlbi5J1y1xoFWiPg09SLbPr7C2LyO9VfxOZkb5TPA=; b=kqjtsoLzfdv3gUMR05Kfp9CPGjKo6u7oSviMucutrQbuKDlAU5rnplhFgAp1aT5Pc5 tqHWreylyiMzMrXe/D/UEKHy2fQ5WL/M3Ovmg5F3m5lYFIfJ2AXAJdzKkZKPpJ+qwhRk esXR/k+pPYym3GwF78dhahiS+3rU3O4LpnGvpW72eYs0zMGU44797r37d6GM5qYa7Qc+ e4l0xXAxJ9zloV0HocsYTFO+sBt6yRPEmA/KBXUEJE/Y7vrcTCmszuZuIaalnqtGbdN9 9SeY+S8ua0aBhjIqgneju8Rj4bogsE4z+3Fvi0TsCeUUeU7AqgXVbm9TRjCO6OL85bvK AZog== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=imrlbi5J1y1xoFWiPg09SLbPr7C2LyO9VfxOZkb5TPA=; b=swAK/cHB0EEB0lYVsHNvr+k0lV8AVHGhxl/cFGPN+QqPKiF5pGxi90R4wyA/BfFV/l Ef3XRAEtJ5BUtOCC/LJ14em/jYS9Dmeh4JGHdtPQmQbxBB2wVXrETODbZNl9VmPSvYBD +JY/vPjy4RWzxDL1OFWGhlZutFKoYYY5UthJV5LshHsJTHVXaUswCpeZ5BYxES+AyTf1 g5dREbR98fgSZ2Fl4hk0oPXDu5QALlRQShkCcqEhiFRQhW2KG4q7hDZV61JzMil2q19e ZTXxCxPOVZxcYQ+u0kdwNcesqfPWD/LEoNq1REysa/FL4qAD5w7pRB+GTABZJcSm5Kyg cpKQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533nF0ayeMSxGEqTXor+GhjNoeyOr5ed9L/EaDVyZm9/v+QL6mrH S9mBmmgUUdZQ2ai7TllO6Gn8eiK1ug+BKJxPJZ4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyrsdtZwLokbD7Qd3cv0sHrB0GyImLZSk/0qxrwrXFnSegdtJhKMmyT7zS9bv5xZc85a/M/YHR+GbmcZUo/Fgw= X-Received: by 2002:a25:41cd:: with SMTP id o196mr13947487yba.181.1589659550429; Sat, 16 May 2020 13:05:50 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 16 May 2020 16:05:49 -0400 In-Reply-To: <112aecd7-8165-6cae-ef69-08d14d843841@yandex.ru> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::b35; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-yb1-xb35.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250522 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov writes: > Fair enough. But in the end, you're probably asking for something that > doesn't exist in Emacs yet. Like, no graphical switches for buffers > that's equal in power to the minibuffer-based one. Which capabilities are you referring to more exactly here? I'm not too familiar with the details, so please forgive me if this is obvious. > I agree that the prompts could be positioned better, and the result > could be better readability. After all, if one uses the minibuffer a > lot, isn't it a shame that it resides somewhere down below, and uses the > same font as the rest of Emacs? I have never thought about it, but I personally think it's a very good idea. In combination with that, simple changes like giving it a border or a different background, would also help make it more visible. One frequent annoyance for me in more "modern" software is that the popups hide the thing they are about. For example, a "Search and replace" dialog box positioned on top of the text it matches, so you have to manually move the dialog box around to see what you're doing. I think we should try to avoid that, at least by default, so maybe the top positioning is a better default than in the center. > In that, I think VS Code, Atom, etc, have a better idea by positioning > their input area somewhere near the top of the window, in an easy-to-see > dropdown. Somewhere in the middle of the frame could also work. I have never used them. Do you mean something like this (found on a quick search)? https://flight-manual.atom.io/using-atom/images/goto.png Or could you provide a better screenshot or video of that? > I'd like to see Emacs something like this by default someday. [...] > Or at least, the above would be a better solution, by improving > minibuffer's usability for both newbies and existing users. Agreed. Best regards, Stefan Kangas