From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#68663: Unsaved buffers dialog is unhelpful Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2024 15:31:14 -0800 Message-ID: References: <86ede3824s.fsf@gnu.org> <6593db7e-a065-4d07-89e8-775f7e8cd90e@gmail.com> <86v87e7ro4.fsf@gnu.org> <03c24873-b7d6-4fe5-8fff-5e71882271d5@gmail.com> <86r0i27pop.fsf@gnu.org> <81ca484b-c26b-4798-9a75-4ac5b1c54eab@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20687"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 68663@debbugs.gnu.org To: Nikolay Kudryavtsev , Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 28 00:32:19 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rTs9q-000575-UL for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2024 00:32:18 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rTs9V-0003fb-33; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 18:31:57 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rTs9T-0003fN-J0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 18:31:55 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rTs9T-0004hz-AK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 18:31:55 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rTs9Z-00010Z-Ud for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 18:32:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2024 23:32:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68663 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 68663-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B68663.17063982923839 (code B ref 68663); Sat, 27 Jan 2024 23:32:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 68663) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2024 23:31:32 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56122 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rTs96-0000zr-50 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 18:31:32 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-ed1-x531.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::531]:49595) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rTs91-0000zb-PX for 68663@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 18:31:31 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-ed1-x531.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-55d4013f3e0so1211372a12.3 for <68663@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 15:31:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1706398274; x=1707003074; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=HENBl9kJtbAy7Td/c1qCY1q+R0muQz8qw4mkZkNi0F8=; b=ae/SN+cxT1cKsFJUldC/+EDtecedbK7eECJUsvFeFY9CHU6Fx3P8v7h6vKjfknuiNG dTkiFPAljk7ufvmV1TO9ZbbNfDgqNOkD1ZC1DW5sRU75b1yivjocst5e+h1Qjxf4vgkd /PNJc/sBf0H9Om/v4FWayPRUGYIXt+JWu2sfYL+6IkQzSjkXT4hJTf6cMAu78IQgc9lf GiYG+82mXQVkJ8W3hHm/vqjlPdlPIqFUshIBZBwV90sfr0L34jgUaw9YyD0TsJHpuZEA ofe61z02+yJNtsAVUf2m3oIuj9yf8WHShm24KwdsakhAG5rretMBzuDuE1O++QXcCAPm F9rw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1706398274; x=1707003074; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=HENBl9kJtbAy7Td/c1qCY1q+R0muQz8qw4mkZkNi0F8=; b=islvwoXFHS62mIfbpeJQ4eZer5teiUvEzfXfuCfwdoKTgxjPnlFy2DR8YoI/R89W9M jkrRcGtARDO4Nuh5UUmAFI+oU2lva1eD8OtJoJ4z3ipbM9IaKkoGWctLVCkwYrSzqG9y FPdb2/aJ7p8woiN1MA8jFP6AU30Io9xGSS0WsV5trJxKD18u3pxAfx5plyWEdYA4OjPR V0C9mE9zehDRCy6qb+gnchjaqiQtivQYBu5UPTBUrNeLg03AL+OZhx0zoAlutP9X97x7 Bpm9cAK1qtksnOid+vFEe83yjp0mYXHyhbhd1FpLzwB6ADOR3A7uu+Qa19otyH+GZBep JajQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwkegedM4gqK2TQ3u6zDCmirk+Md+83EubXrRZMC8MYcUK2qteu TXzQO9y5vdPiTvYZ0d0gZQGItVQj/DKClFC33hDK0266DjShpHSKKr69jmTPGfJrHeSjm5aMKq4 9NslijsjfgLwu4eCTe5JRcwz2unQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEroscl2BYBhRmISrMlbFdTDGp05e2CUCo76M95KREXUG5ckIUFskxO/edub4sgPcddDVjIZ1IxwNMRtM/qJgI= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:520a:b0:55d:2ac1:b381 with SMTP id s10-20020a056402520a00b0055d2ac1b381mr1852774edd.27.1706398274459; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 15:31:14 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 15:31:14 -0800 In-Reply-To: <81ca484b-c26b-4798-9a75-4ac5b1c54eab@gmail.com> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:279039 Archived-At: Nikolay Kudryavtsev writes: > That's very unfortunate. > > I'll summarize the arguments for changing this dialog for the future, > because I have a hunch that this would eventually be changed: > > From the point of view of a power user this is bad because power users > generally have Emacs running for day-weeks-months at a time and they > generally need to know whether the change they've made to some buffer > days ago is meaningful or a typo. The new behavior requires them to set > use-dialog-box nil or remember about the C-x C-c behavior being > different. All for a basic thing that ideally should not take any mental > space. Thanks. I think the old dialog was a complete mess myself, as did others, so I think simply reverting to it is the a no-go. However, we might be more amenable to a well-thought out proposal for what an improved dialogue might look like in 2024. I'm not saying that we would accept it, but I'm not prepared to close any doors either. The fact that we recently changed it means that it would have to be a solid proposal for us to accept it, though. Mere tweaks to get some old favorite feature back are not likely to fly. Good arguments here might include: - "I have looked at how VSCode does this, a project with significant resources to pour into things like dedicated UX experts, and here is what they do. We might want to do something similar, because ..." > From the point of view of a new user this is bad because now the user > is stuck searching for those modified buffers by hand since Emacs have > not given him any guidance. Quitting and saving is such a basic > operation(cue two pages of vim jokes) that at this point we should not > only not expect the user to know about M-x save-some-buffers, but even > what the buffer modified mode line flag looks like. I didn't check, but it sounds like this might point to a real problem. Could you please describe in more detail the workflow that you have in mind? What is the exact situation when you see the problem, and why? Bonus points for coming up with other ideas to improve the situation than reverting or a complete redesign.