* NonGNU ELPA: add Logview
@ 2023-07-06 16:14 Paul Pogonyshev
2023-07-06 16:20 ` Bozhidar Batsov
2023-07-06 17:59 ` Philip Kaludercic
0 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Paul Pogonyshev @ 2023-07-06 16:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Emacs developers; +Cc: bozhidar
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 965 bytes --]
Hi,
Bozhidar Batsov, author and maintainer of CIDER, requested for package
Logview to be made available on NonGNU ELPA:
https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/3365
Since Logview has two dependencies itself, which are not available on
NonGNU ELPA, and since Bozhidar assured me that it is fine to submit
multiple packages in one go, the attached patch adds all three (Logview,
datetime, extmap) at once. Local checks suggest that the packages can be
built fine.
All the packages have been available from MELPA for years and are mature
projects. They are under active maintenance: even if I don't often add new
features, I respond to reported issues on GitHub and write fixes when
needed.
I added directory `githooks' to the lists of exclusions even if it doesn't
yet exist in the dependencies: I will add it there sooner or later anyway.
In Logview itself this directory already exists.
Please CC me on any replies, I'm not subscribed to the list.
Paul
[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 1217 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #2: 0001-Add-Logview-with-dependencies.patch --]
[-- Type: text/x-patch, Size: 1542 bytes --]
From 2edfe9ef6b1484e9417c140612ce60ebba789d6d Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Paul Pogonyshev <pogonyshev@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2023 18:00:04 +0200
Subject: [PATCH] Add Logview with dependencies.
---
elpa-packages | 9 +++++++++
1 file changed, 9 insertions(+)
diff --git a/elpa-packages b/elpa-packages
index 06107249ef..5443a44e2e 100644
--- a/elpa-packages
+++ b/elpa-packages
@@ -108,6 +108,9 @@
:ignored-files ("LICENSE" "test" "Cask" "Makefile")
:news "CHANGELOG.md")
+ (datetime :url "https://github.com/doublep/datetime.git"
+ :ignored-files (".github" "githooks" "dev" "test" "Eldev" "LICENSE"))
+
(denote-refs :url "https://codeberg.org/akib/emacs-denote-refs")
(devhelp :url "https://codeberg.org/akib/emacs-devhelp")
@@ -206,6 +209,9 @@
(evil-visualstar :url "https://github.com/bling/evil-visualstar.git"
:readme ("README.md"))
+ (extmap :url "https://github.com/doublep/extmap.git"
+ :ignored-files (".github" "githooks" "test" "Eldev" "LICENSE"))
+
(flx :url "https://github.com/lewang/flx"
:readme "README.md"
:ignored-files (".travis.yml" "LICENSE"
@@ -384,6 +390,9 @@
(kotlin-mode :url "https://github.com/Emacs-Kotlin-Mode-Maintainers/kotlin-mode"
:ignored-files ("doc" "test" "Cask" "Makefile"))
+ (logview :url "https://github.com/doublep/logview.git"
+ :ignored-files (".github" "githooks" "test" "Eldev" "LICENSE" "TODO.md"))
+
(lorem-ipsum :url "https://github.com/jschaf/emacs-lorem-ipsum"
:readme "README.md")
--
2.35.1
^ permalink raw reply related [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: NonGNU ELPA: add Logview
2023-07-06 16:14 NonGNU ELPA: add Logview Paul Pogonyshev
@ 2023-07-06 16:20 ` Bozhidar Batsov
2023-07-06 17:59 ` Philip Kaludercic
1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Bozhidar Batsov @ 2023-07-06 16:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Paul Pogonyshev, Emacs Devel, Philip Kaludercic
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1233 bytes --]
Thanks for putting the patch together so quickly!
Phillip, can you help us to get it applied?
On Thu, Jul 6, 2023, at 7:14 PM, Paul Pogonyshev wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Bozhidar Batsov, author and maintainer of CIDER, requested for package Logview to be made available on NonGNU ELPA: https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/3365
>
> Since Logview has two dependencies itself, which are not available on NonGNU ELPA, and since Bozhidar assured me that it is fine to submit multiple packages in one go, the attached patch adds all three (Logview, datetime, extmap) at once. Local checks suggest that the packages can be built fine.
>
> All the packages have been available from MELPA for years and are mature projects. They are under active maintenance: even if I don't often add new features, I respond to reported issues on GitHub and write fixes when needed.
>
> I added directory `githooks' to the lists of exclusions even if it doesn't yet exist in the dependencies: I will add it there sooner or later anyway. In Logview itself this directory already exists.
>
> Please CC me on any replies, I'm not subscribed to the list.
>
> Paul
>
> *Attachments:*
> • 0001-Add-Logview-with-dependencies.patch
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1777 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: NonGNU ELPA: add Logview
2023-07-06 16:14 NonGNU ELPA: add Logview Paul Pogonyshev
2023-07-06 16:20 ` Bozhidar Batsov
@ 2023-07-06 17:59 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-07-06 19:47 ` Paul Pogonyshev
1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Philip Kaludercic @ 2023-07-06 17:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Paul Pogonyshev; +Cc: Emacs developers, bozhidar
"Bozhidar Batsov" <bozhidar@batsov.dev> writes:
> Thanks for putting the patch together so quickly!
>
> Phillip, can you help us to get it applied?
Applying the patch is not the issue, I am just personally hesitant to
add a bunch of dependencies/packages I have never heard about before,
more so because I don't use CIDER, /especially/ when I lack the time to
properly review them (the argument that a package is "mature on MELPA"
is rather weak from my experience, especially given the number of low
quality packages on the archive).
Without understanding the issue properly, why is there a need for an
external data-time parsing package, if Emacs already comes with
functions for parsing timestamps? It appears to use use this extmap
package, which parses binary data? How is this all related to CIDER?
But perhaps I am in a minority here, and we should just apply the patch.
> On Thu, Jul 6, 2023, at 7:14 PM, Paul Pogonyshev wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Bozhidar Batsov, author and maintainer of CIDER, requested for
>> package Logview to be made available on NonGNU ELPA:
>> https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/3365
>>
>> Since Logview has two dependencies itself, which are not available
>> on NonGNU ELPA, and since Bozhidar assured me that it is fine to
>> submit multiple packages in one go, the attached patch adds all
>> three (Logview, datetime, extmap) at once. Local checks suggest that
>> the packages can be built fine.
I am a bit confused, why should adding multiple related packages in a
single patch be an issue?
>> All the packages have been available from MELPA for years and are
>> mature projects. They are under active maintenance: even if I don't
>> often add new features, I respond to reported issues on GitHub and
>> write fixes when needed.
>>
>> I added directory `githooks' to the lists of exclusions even if it
>> doesn't yet exist in the dependencies: I will add it there sooner or
>> later anyway. In Logview itself this directory already exists.
If possible, please add ".elpaignore" files to the repositories
themselves, so that we can void tracking the files in elpa-packages
itself.
>> Please CC me on any replies, I'm not subscribed to the list.
That is a given, don't worry about it.
>> Paul
>>
>> *Attachments:*
>> • 0001-Add-Logview-with-dependencies.patch
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: NonGNU ELPA: add Logview
2023-07-06 17:59 ` Philip Kaludercic
@ 2023-07-06 19:47 ` Paul Pogonyshev
2023-07-07 5:21 ` Bozhidar Batsov
0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Paul Pogonyshev @ 2023-07-06 19:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Philip Kaludercic; +Cc: Emacs developers, bozhidar
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4016 bytes --]
> Without understanding the issue properly, why is there a need for an
external data-time parsing package, if Emacs already comes with functions
for parsing timestamps?
For speed. Logview is aimed at very large logs (megabytes) and also for
lazily filtering them on-the-fly, adding/removing filters and so on.
Built-in functions were not fast enough, so I had to create datetime. Also
for matching: there is no standard timestamp format, the library helps me
at building regexs needed to match timestamps in given format and also
trying to guess which of many possible formats to use for a particular file.
I didn't create the library just for fun, I saw a need for it.
> It appears to use use this extmap package, which parses binary data?
Yes.
> How is this all related to CIDER?
"This all" is not related to CIDER, because this is Logview's
implementation details. CIDER recently added some log-related functionality
and they'd like to use Logview as the base for their mode, as far as I
understand. They don't need datetime or extmap, but according to NonGNU
ELPA policy, Logview cannot be added without its dependencies.
> If possible, please add ".elpaignore" files to the repositories
themselves, so that we can void tracking the files in elpa-packages itself.
OK, I will do that if the packages get added to the archive. Don't want to
create files while I'm not sure they would be used for anything.
Paul
On Thu, 6 Jul 2023 at 19:59, Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> wrote:
>
> "Bozhidar Batsov" <bozhidar@batsov.dev> writes:
>
> > Thanks for putting the patch together so quickly!
> >
> > Phillip, can you help us to get it applied?
>
> Applying the patch is not the issue, I am just personally hesitant to
> add a bunch of dependencies/packages I have never heard about before,
> more so because I don't use CIDER, /especially/ when I lack the time to
> properly review them (the argument that a package is "mature on MELPA"
> is rather weak from my experience, especially given the number of low
> quality packages on the archive).
>
> Without understanding the issue properly, why is there a need for an
> external data-time parsing package, if Emacs already comes with
> functions for parsing timestamps? It appears to use use this extmap
> package, which parses binary data? How is this all related to CIDER?
>
> But perhaps I am in a minority here, and we should just apply the patch.
>
> > On Thu, Jul 6, 2023, at 7:14 PM, Paul Pogonyshev wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Bozhidar Batsov, author and maintainer of CIDER, requested for
> >> package Logview to be made available on NonGNU ELPA:
> >> https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/3365
> >>
> >> Since Logview has two dependencies itself, which are not available
> >> on NonGNU ELPA, and since Bozhidar assured me that it is fine to
> >> submit multiple packages in one go, the attached patch adds all
> >> three (Logview, datetime, extmap) at once. Local checks suggest that
> >> the packages can be built fine.
>
> I am a bit confused, why should adding multiple related packages in a
> single patch be an issue?
>
> >> All the packages have been available from MELPA for years and are
> >> mature projects. They are under active maintenance: even if I don't
> >> often add new features, I respond to reported issues on GitHub and
> >> write fixes when needed.
> >>
> >> I added directory `githooks' to the lists of exclusions even if it
> >> doesn't yet exist in the dependencies: I will add it there sooner or
> >> later anyway. In Logview itself this directory already exists.
>
> If possible, please add ".elpaignore" files to the repositories
> themselves, so that we can void tracking the files in elpa-packages
> itself.
>
> >> Please CC me on any replies, I'm not subscribed to the list.
>
> That is a given, don't worry about it.
>
> >> Paul
> >>
> >> *Attachments:*
> >> • 0001-Add-Logview-with-dependencies.patch
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: NonGNU ELPA: add Logview
2023-07-06 19:47 ` Paul Pogonyshev
@ 2023-07-07 5:21 ` Bozhidar Batsov
2023-07-13 13:34 ` Bozhidar Batsov
0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Bozhidar Batsov @ 2023-07-07 5:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Paul Pogonyshev, Philip Kaludercic; +Cc: Emacs Devel
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4766 bytes --]
Yeah, CIDER recently introduced some functionality that uses Logview internally (see https://docs.cider.mx/cider/debugging/logging.html), that's why for us it's important for the package to be available on NonGNU ELPA. I think that Logview is a great and very useful package on its own, btw, so even without CIDER's immediate need I'd still advocate for its inclusion there.
Can't speak about Logview's deps (as I'm not familiar with them), but I know Paul is a great package maintainer, so I'm pretty sure that if he had to create some additional library there was a real need for it.
On Thu, Jul 6, 2023, at 10:47 PM, Paul Pogonyshev wrote:
> > Without understanding the issue properly, why is there a need for an external data-time parsing package, if Emacs already comes with functions for parsing timestamps?
>
> For speed. Logview is aimed at very large logs (megabytes) and also for lazily filtering them on-the-fly, adding/removing filters and so on. Built-in functions were not fast enough, so I had to create datetime. Also for matching: there is no standard timestamp format, the library helps me at building regexs needed to match timestamps in given format and also trying to guess which of many possible formats to use for a particular file.
>
> I didn't create the library just for fun, I saw a need for it.
>
> > It appears to use use this extmap package, which parses binary data?
>
> Yes.
>
> > How is this all related to CIDER?
>
> "This all" is not related to CIDER, because this is Logview's implementation details. CIDER recently added some log-related functionality and they'd like to use Logview as the base for their mode, as far as I understand. They don't need datetime or extmap, but according to NonGNU ELPA policy, Logview cannot be added without its dependencies.
>
> > If possible, please add ".elpaignore" files to the repositories themselves, so that we can void tracking the files in elpa-packages itself.
>
> OK, I will do that if the packages get added to the archive. Don't want to create files while I'm not sure they would be used for anything.
>
> Paul
>
> On Thu, 6 Jul 2023 at 19:59, Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> wrote:
>>
>> "Bozhidar Batsov" <bozhidar@batsov.dev> writes:
>>
>> > Thanks for putting the patch together so quickly!
>> >
>> > Phillip, can you help us to get it applied?
>>
>> Applying the patch is not the issue, I am just personally hesitant to
>> add a bunch of dependencies/packages I have never heard about before,
>> more so because I don't use CIDER, /especially/ when I lack the time to
>> properly review them (the argument that a package is "mature on MELPA"
>> is rather weak from my experience, especially given the number of low
>> quality packages on the archive).
>>
>> Without understanding the issue properly, why is there a need for an
>> external data-time parsing package, if Emacs already comes with
>> functions for parsing timestamps? It appears to use use this extmap
>> package, which parses binary data? How is this all related to CIDER?
>>
>> But perhaps I am in a minority here, and we should just apply the patch.
>>
>> > On Thu, Jul 6, 2023, at 7:14 PM, Paul Pogonyshev wrote:
>> >> Hi,
>> >>
>> >> Bozhidar Batsov, author and maintainer of CIDER, requested for
>> >> package Logview to be made available on NonGNU ELPA:
>> >> https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/3365
>> >>
>> >> Since Logview has two dependencies itself, which are not available
>> >> on NonGNU ELPA, and since Bozhidar assured me that it is fine to
>> >> submit multiple packages in one go, the attached patch adds all
>> >> three (Logview, datetime, extmap) at once. Local checks suggest that
>> >> the packages can be built fine.
>>
>> I am a bit confused, why should adding multiple related packages in a
>> single patch be an issue?
>>
>> >> All the packages have been available from MELPA for years and are
>> >> mature projects. They are under active maintenance: even if I don't
>> >> often add new features, I respond to reported issues on GitHub and
>> >> write fixes when needed.
>> >>
>> >> I added directory `githooks' to the lists of exclusions even if it
>> >> doesn't yet exist in the dependencies: I will add it there sooner or
>> >> later anyway. In Logview itself this directory already exists.
>>
>> If possible, please add ".elpaignore" files to the repositories
>> themselves, so that we can void tracking the files in elpa-packages
>> itself.
>>
>> >> Please CC me on any replies, I'm not subscribed to the list.
>>
>> That is a given, don't worry about it.
>>
>> >> Paul
>> >>
>> >> *Attachments:*
>> >> • 0001-Add-Logview-with-dependencies.patch
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 6681 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: NonGNU ELPA: add Logview
2023-07-07 5:21 ` Bozhidar Batsov
@ 2023-07-13 13:34 ` Bozhidar Batsov
2023-07-13 18:35 ` Philip Kaludercic
2025-01-23 10:14 ` Bozhidar Batsov
0 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Bozhidar Batsov @ 2023-07-13 13:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Paul Pogonyshev, Philip Kaludercic, Emacs Devel; +Cc: Emacs Devel
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5009 bytes --]
Just bumping this conversation, as we're still looking for someone to help us apply the patch.
On Fri, Jul 7, 2023, at 8:21 AM, Bozhidar Batsov wrote:
> Yeah, CIDER recently introduced some functionality that uses Logview internally (see https://docs.cider.mx/cider/debugging/logging.html), that's why for us it's important for the package to be available on NonGNU ELPA. I think that Logview is a great and very useful package on its own, btw, so even without CIDER's immediate need I'd still advocate for its inclusion there.
>
> Can't speak about Logview's deps (as I'm not familiar with them), but I know Paul is a great package maintainer, so I'm pretty sure that if he had to create some additional library there was a real need for it.
>
> On Thu, Jul 6, 2023, at 10:47 PM, Paul Pogonyshev wrote:
>> > Without understanding the issue properly, why is there a need for an external data-time parsing package, if Emacs already comes with functions for parsing timestamps?
>>
>> For speed. Logview is aimed at very large logs (megabytes) and also for lazily filtering them on-the-fly, adding/removing filters and so on. Built-in functions were not fast enough, so I had to create datetime. Also for matching: there is no standard timestamp format, the library helps me at building regexs needed to match timestamps in given format and also trying to guess which of many possible formats to use for a particular file.
>>
>> I didn't create the library just for fun, I saw a need for it.
>>
>> > It appears to use use this extmap package, which parses binary data?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> > How is this all related to CIDER?
>>
>> "This all" is not related to CIDER, because this is Logview's implementation details. CIDER recently added some log-related functionality and they'd like to use Logview as the base for their mode, as far as I understand. They don't need datetime or extmap, but according to NonGNU ELPA policy, Logview cannot be added without its dependencies.
>>
>> > If possible, please add ".elpaignore" files to the repositories themselves, so that we can void tracking the files in elpa-packages itself.
>>
>> OK, I will do that if the packages get added to the archive. Don't want to create files while I'm not sure they would be used for anything.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> On Thu, 6 Jul 2023 at 19:59, Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> "Bozhidar Batsov" <bozhidar@batsov.dev> writes:
>>>
>>> > Thanks for putting the patch together so quickly!
>>> >
>>> > Phillip, can you help us to get it applied?
>>>
>>> Applying the patch is not the issue, I am just personally hesitant to
>>> add a bunch of dependencies/packages I have never heard about before,
>>> more so because I don't use CIDER, /especially/ when I lack the time to
>>> properly review them (the argument that a package is "mature on MELPA"
>>> is rather weak from my experience, especially given the number of low
>>> quality packages on the archive).
>>>
>>> Without understanding the issue properly, why is there a need for an
>>> external data-time parsing package, if Emacs already comes with
>>> functions for parsing timestamps? It appears to use use this extmap
>>> package, which parses binary data? How is this all related to CIDER?
>>>
>>> But perhaps I am in a minority here, and we should just apply the patch.
>>>
>>> > On Thu, Jul 6, 2023, at 7:14 PM, Paul Pogonyshev wrote:
>>> >> Hi,
>>> >>
>>> >> Bozhidar Batsov, author and maintainer of CIDER, requested for
>>> >> package Logview to be made available on NonGNU ELPA:
>>> >> https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/3365
>>> >>
>>> >> Since Logview has two dependencies itself, which are not available
>>> >> on NonGNU ELPA, and since Bozhidar assured me that it is fine to
>>> >> submit multiple packages in one go, the attached patch adds all
>>> >> three (Logview, datetime, extmap) at once. Local checks suggest that
>>> >> the packages can be built fine.
>>>
>>> I am a bit confused, why should adding multiple related packages in a
>>> single patch be an issue?
>>>
>>> >> All the packages have been available from MELPA for years and are
>>> >> mature projects. They are under active maintenance: even if I don't
>>> >> often add new features, I respond to reported issues on GitHub and
>>> >> write fixes when needed.
>>> >>
>>> >> I added directory `githooks' to the lists of exclusions even if it
>>> >> doesn't yet exist in the dependencies: I will add it there sooner or
>>> >> later anyway. In Logview itself this directory already exists.
>>>
>>> If possible, please add ".elpaignore" files to the repositories
>>> themselves, so that we can void tracking the files in elpa-packages
>>> itself.
>>>
>>> >> Please CC me on any replies, I'm not subscribed to the list.
>>>
>>> That is a given, don't worry about it.
>>>
>>> >> Paul
>>> >>
>>> >> *Attachments:*
>>> >> • 0001-Add-Logview-with-dependencies.patch
>
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 6897 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: NonGNU ELPA: add Logview
2023-07-13 13:34 ` Bozhidar Batsov
@ 2023-07-13 18:35 ` Philip Kaludercic
2025-01-23 10:14 ` Bozhidar Batsov
1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Philip Kaludercic @ 2023-07-13 18:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bozhidar Batsov; +Cc: Paul Pogonyshev, Emacs Devel
"Bozhidar Batsov" <bozhidar@batsov.dev> writes:
> Just bumping this conversation, as we're still looking for someone to help us apply the patch.
I was still waiting for comments from other people, as I haven't had the
time to review the packages myself.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: NonGNU ELPA: add Logview
2023-07-13 13:34 ` Bozhidar Batsov
2023-07-13 18:35 ` Philip Kaludercic
@ 2025-01-23 10:14 ` Bozhidar Batsov
2025-01-27 1:26 ` Stefan Kangas
2025-01-29 14:25 ` Philip Kaludercic
1 sibling, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Bozhidar Batsov @ 2025-01-23 10:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Paul Pogonyshev, Philip Kaludercic, Emacs Devel
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5385 bytes --]
Any chance of someone looking into this? It's a bit disappointing that a year and a half later we're still where we started and CIDER users are forced to rely on additional repositories to be able to install logview. :(
On Thu, Jul 13, 2023, at 4:34 PM, Bozhidar Batsov wrote:
> Just bumping this conversation, as we're still looking for someone to help us apply the patch.
>
> On Fri, Jul 7, 2023, at 8:21 AM, Bozhidar Batsov wrote:
>> Yeah, CIDER recently introduced some functionality that uses Logview internally (see https://docs.cider.mx/cider/debugging/logging.html), that's why for us it's important for the package to be available on NonGNU ELPA. I think that Logview is a great and very useful package on its own, btw, so even without CIDER's immediate need I'd still advocate for its inclusion there.
>>
>> Can't speak about Logview's deps (as I'm not familiar with them), but I know Paul is a great package maintainer, so I'm pretty sure that if he had to create some additional library there was a real need for it.
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 6, 2023, at 10:47 PM, Paul Pogonyshev wrote:
>>> > Without understanding the issue properly, why is there a need for an external data-time parsing package, if Emacs already comes with functions for parsing timestamps?
>>>
>>> For speed. Logview is aimed at very large logs (megabytes) and also for lazily filtering them on-the-fly, adding/removing filters and so on. Built-in functions were not fast enough, so I had to create datetime. Also for matching: there is no standard timestamp format, the library helps me at building regexs needed to match timestamps in given format and also trying to guess which of many possible formats to use for a particular file.
>>>
>>> I didn't create the library just for fun, I saw a need for it.
>>>
>>> > It appears to use use this extmap package, which parses binary data?
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>> > How is this all related to CIDER?
>>>
>>> "This all" is not related to CIDER, because this is Logview's implementation details. CIDER recently added some log-related functionality and they'd like to use Logview as the base for their mode, as far as I understand. They don't need datetime or extmap, but according to NonGNU ELPA policy, Logview cannot be added without its dependencies.
>>>
>>> > If possible, please add ".elpaignore" files to the repositories themselves, so that we can void tracking the files in elpa-packages itself.
>>>
>>> OK, I will do that if the packages get added to the archive. Don't want to create files while I'm not sure they would be used for anything.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> On Thu, 6 Jul 2023 at 19:59, Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "Bozhidar Batsov" <bozhidar@batsov.dev> writes:
>>>>
>>>> > Thanks for putting the patch together so quickly!
>>>> >
>>>> > Phillip, can you help us to get it applied?
>>>>
>>>> Applying the patch is not the issue, I am just personally hesitant to
>>>> add a bunch of dependencies/packages I have never heard about before,
>>>> more so because I don't use CIDER, /especially/ when I lack the time to
>>>> properly review them (the argument that a package is "mature on MELPA"
>>>> is rather weak from my experience, especially given the number of low
>>>> quality packages on the archive).
>>>>
>>>> Without understanding the issue properly, why is there a need for an
>>>> external data-time parsing package, if Emacs already comes with
>>>> functions for parsing timestamps? It appears to use use this extmap
>>>> package, which parses binary data? How is this all related to CIDER?
>>>>
>>>> But perhaps I am in a minority here, and we should just apply the patch.
>>>>
>>>> > On Thu, Jul 6, 2023, at 7:14 PM, Paul Pogonyshev wrote:
>>>> >> Hi,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Bozhidar Batsov, author and maintainer of CIDER, requested for
>>>> >> package Logview to be made available on NonGNU ELPA:
>>>> >> https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/3365
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Since Logview has two dependencies itself, which are not available
>>>> >> on NonGNU ELPA, and since Bozhidar assured me that it is fine to
>>>> >> submit multiple packages in one go, the attached patch adds all
>>>> >> three (Logview, datetime, extmap) at once. Local checks suggest that
>>>> >> the packages can be built fine.
>>>>
>>>> I am a bit confused, why should adding multiple related packages in a
>>>> single patch be an issue?
>>>>
>>>> >> All the packages have been available from MELPA for years and are
>>>> >> mature projects. They are under active maintenance: even if I don't
>>>> >> often add new features, I respond to reported issues on GitHub and
>>>> >> write fixes when needed.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I added directory `githooks' to the lists of exclusions even if it
>>>> >> doesn't yet exist in the dependencies: I will add it there sooner or
>>>> >> later anyway. In Logview itself this directory already exists.
>>>>
>>>> If possible, please add ".elpaignore" files to the repositories
>>>> themselves, so that we can void tracking the files in elpa-packages
>>>> itself.
>>>>
>>>> >> Please CC me on any replies, I'm not subscribed to the list.
>>>>
>>>> That is a given, don't worry about it.
>>>>
>>>> >> Paul
>>>> >>
>>>> >> *Attachments:*
>>>> >> • 0001-Add-Logview-with-dependencies.patch
>>
>
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 7301 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: NonGNU ELPA: add Logview
2025-01-23 10:14 ` Bozhidar Batsov
@ 2025-01-27 1:26 ` Stefan Kangas
2025-01-28 10:37 ` Stefan Monnier
2025-01-29 14:25 ` Philip Kaludercic
1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2025-01-27 1:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bozhidar Batsov, Paul Pogonyshev, Philip Kaludercic, Emacs Devel
Cc: Stefan Monnier
"Bozhidar Batsov" <bozhidar@batsov.dev> writes:
> Any chance of someone looking into this? It's a bit disappointing that a year and a half later we're still where we started and CIDER users are forced to rely on additional repositories to be able to install logview. :(
Stefan M, could you please help look into this?
AFAIU, there is a patch in this mail thread that just needs to be pushed
it to NonGNU ELPA:
https://lists.gnu.org/r/emacs-devel/2023-07/msg00194.html
I'm not aware of any specific blockers.
> On Thu, Jul 13, 2023, at 4:34 PM, Bozhidar Batsov wrote:
>> Just bumping this conversation, as we're still looking for someone to help us apply the patch.
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 7, 2023, at 8:21 AM, Bozhidar Batsov wrote:
>>> Yeah, CIDER recently introduced some functionality that uses Logview internally (see https://docs.cider.mx/cider/debugging/logging.html), that's why for us it's important for the package to be available on NonGNU ELPA. I think that Logview is a great and very useful package on its own, btw, so even without CIDER's immediate need I'd still advocate for its inclusion there.
>>>
>>> Can't speak about Logview's deps (as I'm not familiar with them), but I know Paul is a great package maintainer, so I'm pretty sure that if he had to create some additional library there was a real need for it.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 6, 2023, at 10:47 PM, Paul Pogonyshev wrote:
>>>> > Without understanding the issue properly, why is there a need for an external data-time parsing package, if Emacs already comes with functions for parsing timestamps?
>>>>
>>>> For speed. Logview is aimed at very large logs (megabytes) and also for lazily filtering them on-the-fly, adding/removing filters and so on. Built-in functions were not fast enough, so I had to create datetime. Also for matching: there is no standard timestamp format, the library helps me at building regexs needed to match timestamps in given format and also trying to guess which of many possible formats to use for a particular file.
>>>>
>>>> I didn't create the library just for fun, I saw a need for it.
>>>>
>>>> > It appears to use use this extmap package, which parses binary data?
>>>>
>>>> Yes.
>>>>
>>>> > How is this all related to CIDER?
>>>>
>>>> "This all" is not related to CIDER, because this is Logview's implementation details. CIDER recently added some log-related functionality and they'd like to use Logview as the base for their mode, as far as I understand. They don't need datetime or extmap, but according to NonGNU ELPA policy, Logview cannot be added without its dependencies.
>>>>
>>>> > If possible, please add ".elpaignore" files to the repositories themselves, so that we can void tracking the files in elpa-packages itself.
>>>>
>>>> OK, I will do that if the packages get added to the archive. Don't want to create files while I'm not sure they would be used for anything.
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 6 Jul 2023 at 19:59, Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Bozhidar Batsov" <bozhidar@batsov.dev> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>> > Thanks for putting the patch together so quickly!
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Phillip, can you help us to get it applied?
>>>>>
>>>>> Applying the patch is not the issue, I am just personally hesitant to
>>>>> add a bunch of dependencies/packages I have never heard about before,
>>>>> more so because I don't use CIDER, /especially/ when I lack the time to
>>>>> properly review them (the argument that a package is "mature on MELPA"
>>>>> is rather weak from my experience, especially given the number of low
>>>>> quality packages on the archive).
>>>>>
>>>>> Without understanding the issue properly, why is there a need for an
>>>>> external data-time parsing package, if Emacs already comes with
>>>>> functions for parsing timestamps? It appears to use use this extmap
>>>>> package, which parses binary data? How is this all related to CIDER?
>>>>>
>>>>> But perhaps I am in a minority here, and we should just apply the patch.
>>>>>
>>>>> > On Thu, Jul 6, 2023, at 7:14 PM, Paul Pogonyshev wrote:
>>>>> >> Hi,
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Bozhidar Batsov, author and maintainer of CIDER, requested for
>>>>> >> package Logview to be made available on NonGNU ELPA:
>>>>> >> https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/3365
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Since Logview has two dependencies itself, which are not available
>>>>> >> on NonGNU ELPA, and since Bozhidar assured me that it is fine to
>>>>> >> submit multiple packages in one go, the attached patch adds all
>>>>> >> three (Logview, datetime, extmap) at once. Local checks suggest that
>>>>> >> the packages can be built fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am a bit confused, why should adding multiple related packages in a
>>>>> single patch be an issue?
>>>>>
>>>>> >> All the packages have been available from MELPA for years and are
>>>>> >> mature projects. They are under active maintenance: even if I don't
>>>>> >> often add new features, I respond to reported issues on GitHub and
>>>>> >> write fixes when needed.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I added directory `githooks' to the lists of exclusions even if it
>>>>> >> doesn't yet exist in the dependencies: I will add it there sooner or
>>>>> >> later anyway. In Logview itself this directory already exists.
>>>>>
>>>>> If possible, please add ".elpaignore" files to the repositories
>>>>> themselves, so that we can void tracking the files in elpa-packages
>>>>> itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> >> Please CC me on any replies, I'm not subscribed to the list.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is a given, don't worry about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> >> Paul
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> *Attachments:*
>>>>> >> • 0001-Add-Logview-with-dependencies.patch
>>>
>>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: NonGNU ELPA: add Logview
2025-01-27 1:26 ` Stefan Kangas
@ 2025-01-28 10:37 ` Stefan Monnier
0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2025-01-28 10:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Kangas
Cc: Bozhidar Batsov, Paul Pogonyshev, Philip Kaludercic, Emacs Devel
>> Any chance of someone looking into this? It's a bit disappointing that
>> a year and a half later we're still where we started and CIDER users are
>> forced to rely on additional repositories to be able to install
>> logview. :(
> Stefan M, could you please help look into this?
Will do (I'm on the road, so it take a few days, tho:
feel free to ping me if you think I'm taking too much time).
Stefan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: NonGNU ELPA: add Logview
2025-01-23 10:14 ` Bozhidar Batsov
2025-01-27 1:26 ` Stefan Kangas
@ 2025-01-29 14:25 ` Philip Kaludercic
2025-01-29 16:26 ` Bozhidar Batsov
1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Philip Kaludercic @ 2025-01-29 14:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bozhidar Batsov; +Cc: Emacs Devel
"Bozhidar Batsov" <bozhidar@batsov.dev> writes:
> Any chance of someone looking into this? It's a bit disappointing that
> a year and a half later we're still where we started and CIDER users
> are forced to rely on additional repositories to be able to install
> logview. :(
Just to clarify in case anyone else was surprised to read this thinking
that the package was broken due to an unresolvable dependency: Cider
(AFAIU it is a package like SLIME for Common Lisp) has an /optional/
dependency on a third-party package called "logview". This means that
Cider can still be installed without having enable additional archives,
but if it is available, the integration with logview is enabled or
disabled via a user option `cider-log-use-logview'.
Logview (4k+ lines) still remains a big blob to me, especially as it has
two dependencies: "datetime" (2k+ lines) and "extmap" (600+ lines). If
Stefan feels comfortable with adding them, then that is fine, but
finding the time to properly review almost 7000 lines of code take a lot
of energy and time that I don't feel like I can bring up :/ It doesn't
help that the maintainer doesn't seem to be interested in feedback...
You saw as much as I did, it was basically ignored. Since I hate
Emacs-devel anyway, I'm not going to ping it or argue with them when
they say that ten things have to be reimplemented or "why had you do
it like this and not like that", sorry.
[0] https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/3365#issuecomment-2609336623
> On Thu, Jul 13, 2023, at 4:34 PM, Bozhidar Batsov wrote:
>> Just bumping this conversation, as we're still looking for someone to help us apply the patch.
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 7, 2023, at 8:21 AM, Bozhidar Batsov wrote:
>>> Yeah, CIDER recently introduced some functionality that uses
>>> Logview internally (see
>>> https://docs.cider.mx/cider/debugging/logging.html), that's why for
>>> us it's important for the package to be available on NonGNU ELPA. I
>>> think that Logview is a great and very useful package on its own,
>>> btw, so even without CIDER's immediate need I'd still advocate for
>>> its inclusion there.
>>>
>>> Can't speak about Logview's deps (as I'm not familiar with them),
>>> but I know Paul is a great package maintainer, so I'm pretty sure
>>> that if he had to create some additional library there was a real
>>> need for it.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 6, 2023, at 10:47 PM, Paul Pogonyshev wrote:
>>>> > Without understanding the issue properly, why is there a need
>>>> > for an external data-time parsing package, if Emacs already
>>>> > comes with functions for parsing timestamps?
>>>>
>>>> For speed. Logview is aimed at very large logs (megabytes) and
>>>> also for lazily filtering them on-the-fly, adding/removing filters
>>>> and so on. Built-in functions were not fast enough, so I had to
>>>> create datetime. Also for matching: there is no standard timestamp
>>>> format, the library helps me at building regexs needed to match
>>>> timestamps in given format and also trying to guess which of many
>>>> possible formats to use for a particular file.
>>>>
>>>> I didn't create the library just for fun, I saw a need for it.
>>>>
>>>> > It appears to use use this extmap package, which parses binary data?
>>>>
>>>> Yes.
>>>>
>>>> > How is this all related to CIDER?
>>>>
>>>> "This all" is not related to CIDER, because this is Logview's
>>>> implementation details. CIDER recently added some log-related
>>>> functionality and they'd like to use Logview as the base for their
>>>> mode, as far as I understand. They don't need datetime or extmap,
>>>> but according to NonGNU ELPA policy, Logview cannot be added
>>>> without its dependencies.
>>>>
>>>> > If possible, please add ".elpaignore" files to the repositories themselves, so that we can void tracking the files in elpa-packages itself.
>>>>
>>>> OK, I will do that if the packages get added to the archive. Don't want to create files while I'm not sure they would be used for anything.
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 6 Jul 2023 at 19:59, Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Bozhidar Batsov" <bozhidar@batsov.dev> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>> > Thanks for putting the patch together so quickly!
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Phillip, can you help us to get it applied?
>>>>>
>>>>> Applying the patch is not the issue, I am just personally hesitant to
>>>>> add a bunch of dependencies/packages I have never heard about before,
>>>>> more so because I don't use CIDER, /especially/ when I lack the time to
>>>>> properly review them (the argument that a package is "mature on MELPA"
>>>>> is rather weak from my experience, especially given the number of low
>>>>> quality packages on the archive).
>>>>>
>>>>> Without understanding the issue properly, why is there a need for an
>>>>> external data-time parsing package, if Emacs already comes with
>>>>> functions for parsing timestamps? It appears to use use this extmap
>>>>> package, which parses binary data? How is this all related to CIDER?
>>>>>
>>>>> But perhaps I am in a minority here, and we should just apply the patch.
>>>>>
>>>>> > On Thu, Jul 6, 2023, at 7:14 PM, Paul Pogonyshev wrote:
>>>>> >> Hi,
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Bozhidar Batsov, author and maintainer of CIDER, requested for
>>>>> >> package Logview to be made available on NonGNU ELPA:
>>>>> >> https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/3365
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Since Logview has two dependencies itself, which are not available
>>>>> >> on NonGNU ELPA, and since Bozhidar assured me that it is fine to
>>>>> >> submit multiple packages in one go, the attached patch adds all
>>>>> >> three (Logview, datetime, extmap) at once. Local checks suggest that
>>>>> >> the packages can be built fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am a bit confused, why should adding multiple related packages in a
>>>>> single patch be an issue?
>>>>>
>>>>> >> All the packages have been available from MELPA for years and are
>>>>> >> mature projects. They are under active maintenance: even if I don't
>>>>> >> often add new features, I respond to reported issues on GitHub and
>>>>> >> write fixes when needed.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I added directory `githooks' to the lists of exclusions even if it
>>>>> >> doesn't yet exist in the dependencies: I will add it there sooner or
>>>>> >> later anyway. In Logview itself this directory already exists.
>>>>>
>>>>> If possible, please add ".elpaignore" files to the repositories
>>>>> themselves, so that we can void tracking the files in elpa-packages
>>>>> itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> >> Please CC me on any replies, I'm not subscribed to the list.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is a given, don't worry about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> >> Paul
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> *Attachments:*
>>>>> >> • 0001-Add-Logview-with-dependencies.patch
>>>
>>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: NonGNU ELPA: add Logview
2025-01-29 14:25 ` Philip Kaludercic
@ 2025-01-29 16:26 ` Bozhidar Batsov
2025-01-29 16:54 ` Values and standards of ELPA Philip Kaludercic
2025-01-31 21:38 ` NonGNU ELPA: add Logview Richard Stallman
0 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Bozhidar Batsov @ 2025-01-29 16:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Philip Kaludercic, Stefan Monnier; +Cc: Emacs Devel
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 7757 bytes --]
The logview package is relatively popular and well written IMO. Yeah, it's an optional CIDER dependency, but it enhances a lot CIDER's log viewer, that's why I'm keen on having it here. If we want ELPA to become a viable alternative to 3rd party repos we can't be too picky when it comes to the standards for including something. The author is not using ELPA, so his incentive to do extra work for the inclusion is little, if any.
Stefan, thanks for helping out with this!
On Wed, Jan 29, 2025, at 4:25 PM, Philip Kaludercic wrote:
> "Bozhidar Batsov" <bozhidar@batsov.dev> writes:
>
> > Any chance of someone looking into this? It's a bit disappointing that
> > a year and a half later we're still where we started and CIDER users
> > are forced to rely on additional repositories to be able to install
> > logview. :(
>
> Just to clarify in case anyone else was surprised to read this thinking
> that the package was broken due to an unresolvable dependency: Cider
> (AFAIU it is a package like SLIME for Common Lisp) has an /optional/
> dependency on a third-party package called "logview". This means that
> Cider can still be installed without having enable additional archives,
> but if it is available, the integration with logview is enabled or
> disabled via a user option `cider-log-use-logview'.
>
> Logview (4k+ lines) still remains a big blob to me, especially as it has
> two dependencies: "datetime" (2k+ lines) and "extmap" (600+ lines). If
> Stefan feels comfortable with adding them, then that is fine, but
> finding the time to properly review almost 7000 lines of code take a lot
> of energy and time that I don't feel like I can bring up :/ It doesn't
> help that the maintainer doesn't seem to be interested in feedback...
>
> You saw as much as I did, it was basically ignored. Since I hate
> Emacs-devel anyway, I'm not going to ping it or argue with them when
> they say that ten things have to be reimplemented or "why had you do
> it like this and not like that", sorry.
>
> [0] https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/3365#issuecomment-2609336623
>
> > On Thu, Jul 13, 2023, at 4:34 PM, Bozhidar Batsov wrote:
> >> Just bumping this conversation, as we're still looking for someone to help us apply the patch.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jul 7, 2023, at 8:21 AM, Bozhidar Batsov wrote:
> >>> Yeah, CIDER recently introduced some functionality that uses
> >>> Logview internally (see
> >>> https://docs.cider.mx/cider/debugging/logging.html), that's why for
> >>> us it's important for the package to be available on NonGNU ELPA. I
> >>> think that Logview is a great and very useful package on its own,
> >>> btw, so even without CIDER's immediate need I'd still advocate for
> >>> its inclusion there.
> >>>
> >>> Can't speak about Logview's deps (as I'm not familiar with them),
> >>> but I know Paul is a great package maintainer, so I'm pretty sure
> >>> that if he had to create some additional library there was a real
> >>> need for it.
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Jul 6, 2023, at 10:47 PM, Paul Pogonyshev wrote:
> >>>> > Without understanding the issue properly, why is there a need
> >>>> > for an external data-time parsing package, if Emacs already
> >>>> > comes with functions for parsing timestamps?
> >>>>
> >>>> For speed. Logview is aimed at very large logs (megabytes) and
> >>>> also for lazily filtering them on-the-fly, adding/removing filters
> >>>> and so on. Built-in functions were not fast enough, so I had to
> >>>> create datetime. Also for matching: there is no standard timestamp
> >>>> format, the library helps me at building regexs needed to match
> >>>> timestamps in given format and also trying to guess which of many
> >>>> possible formats to use for a particular file.
> >>>>
> >>>> I didn't create the library just for fun, I saw a need for it.
> >>>>
> >>>> > It appears to use use this extmap package, which parses binary data?
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes.
> >>>>
> >>>> > How is this all related to CIDER?
> >>>>
> >>>> "This all" is not related to CIDER, because this is Logview's
> >>>> implementation details. CIDER recently added some log-related
> >>>> functionality and they'd like to use Logview as the base for their
> >>>> mode, as far as I understand. They don't need datetime or extmap,
> >>>> but according to NonGNU ELPA policy, Logview cannot be added
> >>>> without its dependencies.
> >>>>
> >>>> > If possible, please add ".elpaignore" files to the repositories themselves, so that we can void tracking the files in elpa-packages itself.
> >>>>
> >>>> OK, I will do that if the packages get added to the archive. Don't want to create files while I'm not sure they would be used for anything.
> >>>>
> >>>> Paul
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, 6 Jul 2023 at 19:59, Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Bozhidar Batsov" <bozhidar@batsov.dev> writes:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > Thanks for putting the patch together so quickly!
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Phillip, can you help us to get it applied?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Applying the patch is not the issue, I am just personally hesitant to
> >>>>> add a bunch of dependencies/packages I have never heard about before,
> >>>>> more so because I don't use CIDER, /especially/ when I lack the time to
> >>>>> properly review them (the argument that a package is "mature on MELPA"
> >>>>> is rather weak from my experience, especially given the number of low
> >>>>> quality packages on the archive).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Without understanding the issue properly, why is there a need for an
> >>>>> external data-time parsing package, if Emacs already comes with
> >>>>> functions for parsing timestamps? It appears to use use this extmap
> >>>>> package, which parses binary data? How is this all related to CIDER?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But perhaps I am in a minority here, and we should just apply the patch.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > On Thu, Jul 6, 2023, at 7:14 PM, Paul Pogonyshev wrote:
> >>>>> >> Hi,
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> Bozhidar Batsov, author and maintainer of CIDER, requested for
> >>>>> >> package Logview to be made available on NonGNU ELPA:
> >>>>> >> https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/3365
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> Since Logview has two dependencies itself, which are not available
> >>>>> >> on NonGNU ELPA, and since Bozhidar assured me that it is fine to
> >>>>> >> submit multiple packages in one go, the attached patch adds all
> >>>>> >> three (Logview, datetime, extmap) at once. Local checks suggest that
> >>>>> >> the packages can be built fine.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I am a bit confused, why should adding multiple related packages in a
> >>>>> single patch be an issue?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >> All the packages have been available from MELPA for years and are
> >>>>> >> mature projects. They are under active maintenance: even if I don't
> >>>>> >> often add new features, I respond to reported issues on GitHub and
> >>>>> >> write fixes when needed.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> I added directory `githooks' to the lists of exclusions even if it
> >>>>> >> doesn't yet exist in the dependencies: I will add it there sooner or
> >>>>> >> later anyway. In Logview itself this directory already exists.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If possible, please add ".elpaignore" files to the repositories
> >>>>> themselves, so that we can void tracking the files in elpa-packages
> >>>>> itself.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >> Please CC me on any replies, I'm not subscribed to the list.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That is a given, don't worry about it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >> Paul
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> *Attachments:*
> >>>>> >> • 0001-Add-Logview-with-dependencies.patch
> >>>
> >>
>
>
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 11814 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Values and standards of ELPA
2025-01-29 16:26 ` Bozhidar Batsov
@ 2025-01-29 16:54 ` Philip Kaludercic
2025-02-03 20:20 ` Richard Stallman
2025-01-31 21:38 ` NonGNU ELPA: add Logview Richard Stallman
1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Philip Kaludercic @ 2025-01-29 16:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bozhidar Batsov; +Cc: Stefan Monnier, Emacs Devel
"Bozhidar Batsov" <bozhidar@batsov.dev> writes:
> The logview package is relatively popular and well written IMO. Yeah,
> it's an optional CIDER dependency, but it enhances a lot CIDER's log
> viewer, that's why I'm keen on having it here. If we want ELPA to
> become a viable alternative to 3rd party repos we can't be too picky
> when it comes to the standards for including something.
But that is the crux of the matter; it is more than just a viable
"alternative", as it provides a vetted and curated selection of
packages. I try to provide helpful reviews and outside-perspectives on
inclusion to ensure that this remains the case, and it would be great if
there were a way to repeat this later on, e.g. to request a manual
review before a package is released (which is another central advantage
of {Non,}GNU ELPA: Tagged releases ensure that packages on ELPA are
consciously packaged, decreasing the instability that tip-by-default
archives foster).
But specifically regarding "alternative"; We of course don't have the
means to estimate this, but I don't know of any major blockers to just
using GNU and NonGNU ELPA. If there is something explicit we are
missing, then that would be important to discuss before reviewing
optional dependencies IMO.
> The author is
> not using ELPA, so his incentive to do extra work for the inclusion is
> little, if any.
Likewise, my incentive to review the code of a person who appears to be
actively hostile to anything I would comment on is also relatively low.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: NonGNU ELPA: add Logview
2025-01-29 16:26 ` Bozhidar Batsov
2025-01-29 16:54 ` Values and standards of ELPA Philip Kaludercic
@ 2025-01-31 21:38 ` Richard Stallman
2025-01-31 22:44 ` Philip Kaludercic
1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Richard Stallman @ 2025-01-31 21:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bozhidar Batsov; +Cc: emacs-devel
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
Theie is a lot of discusson of how much Logview uses CIDER.
What is CIDER? What is its license?
And how (if at all) does CIDER relate to Emacs?
If Logview uses CIDER, is that an issue for Emacs at all?
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: NonGNU ELPA: add Logview
2025-01-31 21:38 ` NonGNU ELPA: add Logview Richard Stallman
@ 2025-01-31 22:44 ` Philip Kaludercic
2025-02-01 8:26 ` Bozhidar Batsov
0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Philip Kaludercic @ 2025-01-31 22:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Richard Stallman; +Cc: Bozhidar Batsov, emacs-devel
Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>
> Theie is a lot of discusson of how much Logview uses CIDER.
>
> What is CIDER? What is its license?
CIDER is a package on NonGNU ELPA. If you C-h P cider RET, then you get
the description:
Provides a Clojure interactive development environment for Emacs, built on
top of nREPL. See https://docs.cider.mx for more details.
and if you follow the link you find out
CIDER extends Emacs with support for interactive programming in
Clojure. The features are centered around cider-mode, an Emacs
minor-mode that complements clojure-mode and clojure-ts-mode. While
clojure-mode supports editing Clojure source files, cider-mode adds
support for interacting with a running Clojure process for
compilation, debugging, definition and documentation lookup, running
tests and so on.
It is a fork of SLIME (the analogous IDE-minor mode for Common Lisp),
and is therefore also licensed under the GPL.
> And how (if at all) does CIDER relate to Emacs?
As mentioned above, it is a package that we distribute under NonGNU ELPA.
> If Logview uses CIDER, is that an issue for Emacs at all?
It is not an issue for Emacs.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: NonGNU ELPA: add Logview
2025-01-31 22:44 ` Philip Kaludercic
@ 2025-02-01 8:26 ` Bozhidar Batsov
2025-02-01 8:43 ` Philip Kaludercic
0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Bozhidar Batsov @ 2025-02-01 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Philip Kaludercic, Richard Stallman; +Cc: Emacs Devel
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2077 bytes --]
> It is a fork of SLIME (the analogous IDE-minor mode for Common Lisp),
> and is therefore also licensed under the GPL.
Just to clarify - CIDER is not a fork of SLIME. It's a replacement of a fork of SLIME that was adapted for Clojure development. (the fork's changes were mostly on the backend, where it was it using a Clojure swank adapter)
CIDER was inspired by SLIME and shares some similarities (even the name is a tribute to SLIME), but it's a completely independent project. More details - https://docs.cider.mx/cider/about/history.html
On Sat, Feb 1, 2025, at 12:44 AM, Philip Kaludercic wrote:
> Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
>
> > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
> > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
> > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
> >
> > Theie is a lot of discusson of how much Logview uses CIDER.
> >
> > What is CIDER? What is its license?
>
> CIDER is a package on NonGNU ELPA. If you C-h P cider RET, then you get
> the description:
>
> Provides a Clojure interactive development environment for Emacs, built on
> top of nREPL. See https://docs.cider.mx for more details.
>
> and if you follow the link you find out
>
> CIDER extends Emacs with support for interactive programming in
> Clojure. The features are centered around cider-mode, an Emacs
> minor-mode that complements clojure-mode and clojure-ts-mode. While
> clojure-mode supports editing Clojure source files, cider-mode adds
> support for interacting with a running Clojure process for
> compilation, debugging, definition and documentation lookup, running
> tests and so on.
>
> It is a fork of SLIME (the analogous IDE-minor mode for Common Lisp),
> and is therefore also licensed under the GPL.
>
> > And how (if at all) does CIDER relate to Emacs?
>
> As mentioned above, it is a package that we distribute under NonGNU ELPA.
>
> > If Logview uses CIDER, is that an issue for Emacs at all?
>
> It is not an issue for Emacs.
>
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: NonGNU ELPA: add Logview
2025-02-01 8:26 ` Bozhidar Batsov
@ 2025-02-01 8:43 ` Philip Kaludercic
0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Philip Kaludercic @ 2025-02-01 8:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bozhidar Batsov; +Cc: Richard Stallman, Emacs Devel
"Bozhidar Batsov" <bozhidar@batsov.dev> writes:
>> It is a fork of SLIME (the analogous IDE-minor mode for Common Lisp),
>> and is therefore also licensed under the GPL.
>
> Just to clarify - CIDER is not a fork of SLIME. It's a replacement of
> a fork of SLIME that was adapted for Clojure development. (the fork's
> changes were mostly on the backend, where it was it using a Clojure
> swank adapter)
Sorry about that, I misread the "Inspired by SLIME" block on the website!
> CIDER was inspired by SLIME and shares some similarities (even the
> name is a tribute to SLIME), but it's a completely independent
> project. More details - https://docs.cider.mx/cider/about/history.html
>
> On Sat, Feb 1, 2025, at 12:44 AM, Philip Kaludercic wrote:
>> Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
>>
>> > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
>> > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
>> > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>> >
>> > Theie is a lot of discusson of how much Logview uses CIDER.
>> >
>> > What is CIDER? What is its license?
>>
>> CIDER is a package on NonGNU ELPA. If you C-h P cider RET, then you get
>> the description:
>>
>> Provides a Clojure interactive development environment for Emacs, built on
>> top of nREPL. See https://docs.cider.mx for more details.
>>
>> and if you follow the link you find out
>>
>> CIDER extends Emacs with support for interactive programming in
>> Clojure. The features are centered around cider-mode, an Emacs
>> minor-mode that complements clojure-mode and clojure-ts-mode. While
>> clojure-mode supports editing Clojure source files, cider-mode adds
>> support for interacting with a running Clojure process for
>> compilation, debugging, definition and documentation lookup, running
>> tests and so on.
>>
>> It is a fork of SLIME (the analogous IDE-minor mode for Common Lisp),
>> and is therefore also licensed under the GPL.
>>
>> > And how (if at all) does CIDER relate to Emacs?
>>
>> As mentioned above, it is a package that we distribute under NonGNU ELPA.
>>
>> > If Logview uses CIDER, is that an issue for Emacs at all?
>>
>> It is not an issue for Emacs.
>>
>>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Values and standards of ELPA
2025-01-29 16:54 ` Values and standards of ELPA Philip Kaludercic
@ 2025-02-03 20:20 ` Richard Stallman
2025-02-03 22:23 ` Stefan Kangas
0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Richard Stallman @ 2025-02-03 20:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Philip Kaludercic; +Cc: bozhidar, monnier, emacs-devel
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
Would someone like to explain to me what CIDER is, and what it does,
ad what it might do for Emacs? We could do it via audio to make it faster.
I'd simply like to understand what features we're talking about.
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Values and standards of ELPA
2025-02-03 20:20 ` Richard Stallman
@ 2025-02-03 22:23 ` Stefan Kangas
0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2025-02-03 22:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: rms, Philip Kaludercic; +Cc: bozhidar, monnier, emacs-devel
Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
> Would someone like to explain to me what CIDER is, and what it does,
> ad what it might do for Emacs? We could do it via audio to make it faster.
> I'd simply like to understand what features we're talking about.
CIDER is the Clojure(Script) Interactive Development Environment
that Rocks!
CIDER extends Emacs with support for interactive programming in
Clojure. The features are centered around cider-mode, an Emacs
minor-mode that complements clojure-mode and clojure-ts-mode. While
clojure-mode and clojure-ts-mode support editing Clojure source
files, cider-mode adds support for interacting with a running
Clojure process for compilation, code completion, debugging,
definition and documentation lookup, running tests and so on.
Source:
https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2025-02-03 22:23 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 19+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2023-07-06 16:14 NonGNU ELPA: add Logview Paul Pogonyshev
2023-07-06 16:20 ` Bozhidar Batsov
2023-07-06 17:59 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-07-06 19:47 ` Paul Pogonyshev
2023-07-07 5:21 ` Bozhidar Batsov
2023-07-13 13:34 ` Bozhidar Batsov
2023-07-13 18:35 ` Philip Kaludercic
2025-01-23 10:14 ` Bozhidar Batsov
2025-01-27 1:26 ` Stefan Kangas
2025-01-28 10:37 ` Stefan Monnier
2025-01-29 14:25 ` Philip Kaludercic
2025-01-29 16:26 ` Bozhidar Batsov
2025-01-29 16:54 ` Values and standards of ELPA Philip Kaludercic
2025-02-03 20:20 ` Richard Stallman
2025-02-03 22:23 ` Stefan Kangas
2025-01-31 21:38 ` NonGNU ELPA: add Logview Richard Stallman
2025-01-31 22:44 ` Philip Kaludercic
2025-02-01 8:26 ` Bozhidar Batsov
2025-02-01 8:43 ` Philip Kaludercic
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