From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#25747: 25.1.91; hideshow binding C-c @ C-h overrides help Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 17:14:36 -0800 Message-ID: References: <834lzuznib.fsf@gnu.org> <83vasaxgit.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38016"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Allen Li , 25747@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 15 02:15:09 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ke6dJ-0009m6-Kg for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 02:15:09 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34576 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ke6dI-0005lh-Nh for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 20:15:08 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41374) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ke6dC-0005lW-C1 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 20:15:02 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:40750) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ke6dC-0005jN-2T for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 20:15:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ke6dB-0003XQ-Sl for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 20:15:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 01:15:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 25747 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 25747-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B25747.160540288413557 (code B ref 25747); Sun, 15 Nov 2020 01:15:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 25747) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Nov 2020 01:14:44 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52295 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ke6cu-0003Wb-45 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 20:14:44 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-ej1-f47.google.com ([209.85.218.47]:37511) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ke6cs-0003WN-LF for 25747@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 20:14:42 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-ej1-f47.google.com with SMTP id f20so19360215ejz.4 for <25747@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 17:14:42 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-transfer-encoding; bh=D4qpVViUbC/XDKzgoDuEznMH2NhZnaSY2C50z/95Ee0=; b=azZTIKzvvBYS5592eLufPpjelA7vGZHKm1QRL6nuTupHyxkebk+dyVSaC+yyitOL83 HNgKRMNCw0K6uvABJwZRgK57+tHzFZvQZpIMppmHUUM55pzJgOYq2XMGPlDuBymfVJPY pTNysef701lbSxXWEWbB6tbFJ2aCCZxVTbJzlQmtNzkH/nv0MRdBFQqf5YVkZDvmn7GK Jq/dx20o1aCHnA0SVmoRy3TbQM4+miyYFQfZxQu6NPcjyH+z7VXWH2Vc2Vea/AAPvQSA R59o/3EQNQES+ZZg8n1QiKGItXcxNQ8YiLNXdQmEHljZ8UrNEDv/Bv2TVySo97xlcCqi 9LsA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530vOs832bOarHj+gI2WCrgu8Zhb04ffpFTvgil02yRW7heFCmqh DnsHlDhGjW8Gto7kXVfNTWCi2sePqVjwHLkfXpc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwF4M6hUQ3yWMu7KxrbxOLNHdiZLveTnWnzLrt74RIhrdXSMkVKTvKy8SJRScR/Xrz4LxTose17bo6WDU2bf/o= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:4e90:: with SMTP id v16mr9109538eju.477.1605402876957; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 17:14:36 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 17:14:36 -0800 In-Reply-To: <83vasaxgit.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 16 Feb 2017 18:11:06 +0200") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:193345 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> You can get a list of subcommands for a particular prefix key by >> typing C-h, ?, or F1 (describe-prefix-bindings) after the prefix >> key. (There are a few prefix keys for which not all of these keys >> work=E2=80=94those that provide their own bindings for that key. One= of >> these prefix keys is ESC, because ESC C-h is actually C-M-h, >> which marks a defun. However, ESC F1 and ESC ? work fine.) >> >> I guess this is working as intended, then? > > I don't know, it could be. > >> I was thinking of the recommendation in the style guide, which I >> have read many times more than the manual: >> >> Don=E2=80=99t bind C-h following any prefix character (including >> C-c). If you don=E2=80=99t bind C-h, it is automatically available a= s >> a help character for listing the subcommands of the prefix >> character. > > Perhaps we should make that somewhat softer, e.g. "We don't recommend > binding C-h ... if it can be avoided.." or somesuch. I think it's fine to maintain a firm recommendation. Binding C-h is a very poor choice, and should be discouraged accordingly. I also think that "C-c @ C-h" is a very unfortunate keybinding, even if it is mnemonic for "hide". But it seems much too late to do anything about that now. So I don't think we should do anything here, besides closing this as wontfix. Any other opinions?