From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Adding icon sets to Emacs -- and next steps for icons.el Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2022 16:09:44 -0700 Message-ID: References: <310877950.2974437.1661344999220@mail1.libero.it> <83k06x6ajp.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="36836"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: angelo.g0@libero.it, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 25 01:11:04 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oQzWa-0009S3-CB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 25 Aug 2022 01:11:04 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45170 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQzWY-0007y2-Om for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2022 19:11:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36480) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQzVO-0006X7-Kq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2022 19:09:50 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ua1-x92a.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::92a]:40537) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQzVK-0005d3-Fd; Wed, 24 Aug 2022 19:09:50 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ua1-x92a.google.com with SMTP id l10so2321377uak.7; Wed, 24 Aug 2022 16:09:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc; bh=eqTwUaU0UwyPqrrWl89KmFnxA+Z1r6TtSNTCHKi5qWs=; b=YgfXf2G5zp3r299O05DEBlz1WXfM+RqfXAwhFJRrJDXZ1NCLLlYVe0hz8hD2ocDCty apLgcxPfmU2jcaEa5SX3mTXg6jpI52np5hn/02oCMwwOuaPBWWhGS+EdoqVahZtLcuSy OUsXxwrmMoC1TBMKX5xNQjYuXbku2lmpLDAM5ha1VvycASrB7Uw5n8gjwgXlhFevmOcZ VwneA4LIxWwem93/+UlZD2pQ8VFISK/dwXJFajpuzmzJQER1I1aXQkiggXX+V7boVhOh XKDlF0kve3+E3yXgVfSxshUBvKsY7s7k6mG96vfx0owO+tJgpln5nUFMBwdWu6qmgd94 Cpng== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc; bh=eqTwUaU0UwyPqrrWl89KmFnxA+Z1r6TtSNTCHKi5qWs=; b=bk/80H65z6GL+zTdoOQVvsiUZt1hNYmaGecCoU/4m/baWOOgczZ4RweZp6Z66q+3UX LdNddFMqMH5Ux2LbEgYzCSsl0DhhNGSVvcUcvGYd2eEbPytFmIkOv3aVqTrQItG2M0Oq XOeIdyFY/On0wBroXx5HUJhpt9cd/kZRcdk0EvS/S8b49Wge8jVMqSxW+YnCD3ptvjEk Laa4fUPoqAgNJq03colvAOBWKdUG3Ti2+d6BY/h9OEB4Jj9F00/6q1ASZjR7Dy9/1CTy dRyNVz1KWE6IpzdyEDayMsJ2UXys1lHraItWZ3AzRdeKae9mu0WjXG9ueY2B/tUigrm2 dOKA== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo2OapsxO+V4oQvhXJ3NgZtVfHkNv+SiSfpqsVDFJkeDvbTrQJjA X5ZuwgLxeFYDuOz8jmzGe8yNOpshoJ2r4S6/sKsNQNaF X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR7KBlLdGujkyp/CIFRVkUtw73PucCrZtyASXYrdayH9JhM4Qw6NTahhTvaSu59T35hfF/h3erCe6xjsDLhOefA= X-Received: by 2002:a9f:2f0c:0:b0:38c:6559:3c5d with SMTP id x12-20020a9f2f0c000000b0038c65593c5dmr477221uaj.121.1661382584867; Wed, 24 Aug 2022 16:09:44 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 24 Aug 2022 16:09:44 -0700 In-Reply-To: <83k06x6ajp.fsf@gnu.org> X-Hashcash: 1:20:220824:eliz@gnu.org::8N/7Z2z87pr6syM8:6ref Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::92a; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-ua1-x92a.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:294051 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > But "the new one" looks black-and-white here? I doubt losing colors > is going to be loved. There is still color: we just use a single one (black). All in all, black is not necessarily a bad choice: the text I'm reading now is black, as is the text in any paperback book. But we do go from one distinct style to another. This is true. It is inevitable that some people will love a change like this, while others will hate it. Others will probably be indifferent. I think we could think about this from the point of view of what most users will prefer. In doing that, we would probably do well to note current trends in UIX, which definitely have been moving more and more towards the minimalistic. Clear icons of a single (or two) colors seem to be the norm. I tend to think that this is a valid choice, that, if nothing else, helps simplify and unclutter the user interface. This allows users to focus more on the task at hand rather than unimportant and secondary details (such as decorations). The user interface becomes secondary to the daily work. I note that these icons have been created by professional designers, as have the guidelines on how to use them.[1] This includes the one-color look. These icons are immensely popular and used "everywhere" -- which as Dmitry notes means that we do lose a bit of independent "character". On the other hand, I think the current icons also don't have much character, as they are just the default icons coming from GTK/Gnome, if I understand things correctly. They look quite generic, and, dare I say it, dated. There could be other good icon sets, of course, and we could evaluate them side-by-side with the material icons. So far, I didn't find any that also both have enough coverage, and a free license, but there might be some that I've missed. So, in summary, I think the icon set I suggest is both a good and safe choice, that helps clean up the user interface and give it a more contemporary look. I hope that it will be accepted as the default. Footnotes: [1] For more on this, please see: https://material.io/design/iconography/system-icons.html#color https://developers.google.com/fonts/docs/material_icons#coloring